iv'a worn smith

HT, I hope you are right. Having supported the club for over 40 years, I have seen the very bad and very good, without seeing the ultimate prize. However, we operate in different times, both in a business and marketing sense. Don't get me wrong, I love this club and I am excited at the prospect of seeing Watts, Blease, Grimes, Morton, Strauss and others lead us back up the ladder. I am just worried about the damage that might be done to these kids, without the fabric of the club being what it should be. They deserve better than that. The Club, as an entity, needs to demonstrate, not only to us loyal supporters, but to the entire football public, that we are, indeed, bringing back the Demon.

I agree with much of what you have said, but I think we may well sacrifice the talent of the young players we have now, if we allow the malaise of spirit and lack of soul to continue unchecked. Please understand, I accept the need to rebuild, but to my way of thinking, there is a gaping hole in the very fabric of the club, which spills out onto the field and that is what is worrying me. We need to find it and we need to make sure we have people in the background who are certain to instill it. I just hope we have, but I am yet to see it. It is my bet, a lot of supporters will not hang tough, if we continue to get flogged week after week. People won't stay, on some hope that top draft picks will ultimately deliver salvation.

Can't quite agree with that RR. While still under resourced in the late 80's, early 90's, we had a core group of players who left a lot of blood out on the park for the team. Lyon, Spalding, Viney, Stynes and B Lovett to name a few. We played proud and with a lot of grunt. I reckon 1990 could have been our year. Certainly I think we could have given the filth a run for their money, better than Essendon did, if it was not for falling for the 3 card trick against WC in the earlier final. Our motto this year is "Bringing Back the Demon". Accepting the young list we have and regardless of whether the older guys are even suspect B graders, I guess a lot of us just want to see that spirit instilled sooner rather than later, and while more top draft picks are of course welcome, for the spirit of the club - its heart and soul - I just don't want us to be relying on that as our safety net. We are a lot further back in the yes of the public, than almost any other AFL club. We need to get some respect back and soon in my view.

I understand you point, but comparing Hawthorn's 0-2 start to ours is not a realistic comparison. We are supporting our team, but we have a different point of view as to the culture which exist at present. It is true, we lack leaders and that is the problem, but if our kids keep getting flogged, it will affects their confidence. It is time for the "older" guys to really stand up and fly the flag. Look at Essendon on Sunday. Zaharakis plays his first game and is best on ground and Quinn, who has barely touched an Aussie rules football was more than servicable. I believe we need to take similar risks with some of our picks.

I agree with both of you. While PP's are great, we are not a Carlton, Richmond or Hawthorn. What is being forgotten here is the corrosive affect on confidence while we cop floggings week after week. In a club like ours, that may become a cancer. I would rather a winning culture than a mindset of resignation, for the sake of top draft picks. We run a great risk if that is what we rely on for future success.

While I have crossed swords in the past with RR, I can attest to the fact that he is definitely not "clueless" This is a bloody forum for goodness sake and of course opinions will differ. That is what it is about. Let's leave the invective out of the debate. I, for one, enjoy the debate on our future and when I feel a little discouraged by on field performances, I like to read other's positive outlook, from their perspective. Please feel free to disagree, but attack the argument, not the person. Cheers

While I think most of the appraisals above are "realistic", my fear is that the continued erosion of confidence, in such a young list will be contagious and to some extent a self-fulfilling prophecy. While over the last 10 years, a number of clubs have had to bottom out, in order to rise again, they generally had a core group of "stars", which gave those clubs' supporters cause for real hope, looking forward. I am concerned that while we have a very young list - the youngest in the AFL - and we may very well have star quality which will be in the ascendancy in the next 12 months, there are not enough positive signs at present, to prevent another demoralising battering of the team's collective confidence. This is a delicate and difficult balancing act I know, but if the plan is to play the kids, then we have to start doing more of that, while managing their welfare. While I was a great fan of Danners, we are obviously now paying the price for him thinking that we could have "pinched" a premiership, by topping up with recycled players, rather than starting a real youth policy 5 years ago. As an example, I think the true value of Chook and Sylvia have been discounted to a large extent, because they have continually had to play roles designed to plug holes and therefore we have not seen their true potential realised. Also, have you ever noticed that teams who play well and win games have minimal injury lists. Confidence in the mind, can do a lot to protect the body. While I understand we must, out of necessity, rebuild, we must try to keep the confidence level up, of the players and therefore the supporters. This will be a difficult task and I just hope we are up for it.

Now that is a balanced appraisal. Well done

My observation is a general one and was not specifically related to yesterday's game. However, it is not just a scoring shot that results directly from an opposition kick in that worries me, it the regular ease the opposition manage to take the ball out of their defence and scores that result from second and third plays, following that kick out.

DL and HT, you both may be right, but it strikes me as totally counter productive to say, we don't have the skill, so we won't try anything new. Clearly our kick out strategy can be seen from the moon and is covered by opposition sides more often than not. This puts our skill level - or lack of it - under even greater pressure, resulting in turnovers. I would just like to see a bit more daring in our plan.

Very much so Azz. That is what I meant by having even the most basic of game plans, as I posted on another topic. Very frustrating. It's amazing how many counter punches are set up by opposition teams from their kick ins, against us

So let me see if I understand this coreectly. We don't need a game plan until we can get the skills right?? In the meantime, our confidence, as a team, disappears up its own rectum.. Regardless of the talent we have, we need a game plan. Chook, Morton, Beamer, Jones (who in my view was great today) Junior (who I am sure would not like his game today as a skipper) Bruce, Davey and Green, did not seem to have any idea, despite their undoubted talent, what the dish off options were. We went wide, we held the ball up for excrutiatlingly long periods, only to turn it over. We should be better than that. North, probably much to their regret, have never bottomed out, but they continue to have a go and with purpose. All I ask is that we can demonstrate a purpose, even if it does not work. I am yet to see it under Bailey. Like I said before, I hope I am so, so wrong.

The use of the ball out of the guts, going wide on almost every occasion, lack of confidence by the likes of Flash and where was Stef Martin today?. The lack of a key tall forward of course is not DB's fault. All I am saying is, it would appear we have never addressed that contigency as a club. But the game plan, lack of confidence in team mates and turnovers as a result, surely must come down to the coach. Hey, I hope I am proved wrong in a big way, but it seems to me, we are going out to stem the tide, rather than call our own tune. Remember, people were calling for Al Clarkson's neck, but you could see he was trying something. Zac Dawson was like a lamb to the slaughter, but Clarkson persisted. Even then, Clarkson had his rolling zone in its infancy. I remember (and someone will tell me when it was) the Dees were playing the Hawks at the 'G. We were well in front at one point. Miller inadvertantly collected Crawford in the back, which saw Crawf sidelined for weeks. But what happened? The then embryonic zone overrun us, and the young Hawks took the points that day. WHERE IS OUR GAME PLAN??

Let's for a moment, consider you are right Jarka. Neita, we all know as a champion and struck down before he was due. Nevertheless, he is gone. At what stage, did we draft anything that resembled his understudy? Surely, we did not need a crystal ball to find that out. FFS, it told today when it mattered. But, as I asked in my original post, could someone please tell me what our game plan is, because as sure as hell, I have no idea. OK, alright, yes I am stupid.

Clearly..........I would have thought.......but was there a viable marking option in the forward line.?Other than that, I thought the kids were good.........very good. But let's face it, in the end, the Roos moved the ball far more positively, because they knew they had viable marking options up forward. Our turnovers killed us today, because we did not. Do we have a young guy who can be a tall in the forward line? When we had the ascendancy, we held on to the ball for far too long, becuase we had no real marking options up forward. What happened to Stef Martin?

I think Wayne Wussel mostly hit it on the head. Brightest spots in my view, were the debut games of both Jetta and Bennell, In particular, Jetta will be very special. Thought Mclean was lazy to be honest and in actual fact, I think this is where our former drafting (i.e. 5-6 years ago) leaves a big hole in our side. What I mean by that is Chook was recruited with the old fashioned midfield mind set. In a great side, he might be a great player, but as most midfielders do these days, he does not hurt the opposition enough on the scoeboard, Don't get me wrong, Chook has a red hot go, but does not do enough in offence. However and I understand we have limited resources - I only ask one question. Can anyone tell me what they think our game plan is, other than seeking to make sure the flood gates don't open? Because, if that is what it is, we will all get very wet sooner or later. I believe we don't actually have an offensive game plan and seek to minimise the damage, rather than have a red hot go in attack............but wait, there's more To be honest, I thought the final score flattered us. Unless we have a real target up forward soon, we will get crucified yet again. I know we are trying to nurse Jack Watts - and rightly so - but surely we have someone on our list, who is tall enough, strong enough and who presents a true marking option in our foward line, on our list. If not, then why not? The amount of times we got the ball today and hesitated astounded me. WHAT IS OUR GAME PLAN? For goodness sake. D Bailey should put the kids in from day one and give them a taste. By that I don't mean Watts or Blease, but if we have anyone on our list who can be a focal point up forward, then we need to find one and lets give them a try. If we don't, then sooner or later we will be made to look very ordinary once again, by 10 goals plus and on a number of occasions. It seemed clear to me today, despite our early pre-season start to training, we still lack confidence in each other. I am sorry.......but if that is true.......it comes down to the coach. I sincerely hope I am wrong GO DEES!!!!

Very well said E25

In these tough economic times, this is a sensational effort. Other clubs will be very envious. Vlad must now take notice that the MFC is the real deal and our road to recovery is well and truly on track. Jimma, Schwabby and the Board are to be congratulated unreservedly. Hopefully a new air of confidence will go through the entire club and be reflected on the field.

It has been a while since we have had any decent pressies. Beware of Greeks bearing gifts.

Whoever the new (2nd Stage) sponsor will be, will have synergy with our community program work. J Stynes has had a lot to do with this. When the announcement is made, the media will focus on the good work of Jimmy previously, in the community and what we, as a footy club, will do in the community, long term. Jimmy and others, who shall remain nameless on this forum, ought be congratulated for their community based and long sighted "marketing" aims, in this respect. In marketing terms, it is called re-positioning. GO Demons!!!!

Me too RR, but if it is is needed, a couple of extra picks would be very handy, with the long term future in mind.

Plus the fact, we need to have priority draft picks left alone. I think we will need them again for 2010.

The other thing that this demonstrates is that, in this current economic climate, it makes no business sense at all for the AFL to consider pushing ahead with the same timetable for a Gold Coast team. As for Western Sydney ????

Just expressing an opinion. That's all