iv'a worn smith

So after 5 years in the system, Tomahawk has not progressed to elite status? edit: err, Hawkins was not a number 1 draft pick

I do and they love him still. Equally, I have Carlton friends who still rue the day they missed him in the draft, due to their salary cap breaches under pig's arse's stewardship.

No Speed??

I'll give you Gibbs, but his progression is furlong ahead of our JW.

Number 1 draft picks? The point of nominating the last 5 years is that the "science' of draft selection has come a long way since the early 2000's. By and large the number 1 draft picks are playing consistent and good footy. Many of them having to leave home to do it. Now there's 'maturity' for ya.

No. A simple question only

In the last 5 years, can you name one?

Given this appalling post, all I can say is that I am glad that in this country, we have the legal system we do. If we allowed this populist claptrap to prevail, we would have vigilantes walking our streets. Of course, high horses have a habit of crumbling beneath their liege.

Give me a break. The bloke has been in an elite system for over 7 years. If we are to follow your logic through to its inevitable conclusion, once again, no other footy club has had to address player welfare issues with their elite, high end draft picks and once again, the MFC must consider itself unique in this regard. The club can no longer rely on simply being unlucky and wait for the wheel to turn. I would lay London to a brick that Roos won't countenance under performance for too much longer. He is made of far better stuff than that and that is why the MFC needs him at this part of our problematic journey.

Number 1 draft pick, 23 years of age, 5 years in the system. It is either Jack or once again, our recruiters got it terribly wrong, but 5 years is enough time to decide if you want to "buy in" or not.

I remember, as most of us do, when JW debuted against the filth in his first year. Clearly, he was thrown to the wolves. As to whether he should have been or not, remains a matter of debate. After that game, a number of mates of mine observed that they could tell even then he just did not have what it takes for a number 1 draft pick. I retorted by saying, wait for another 3 years, then you will be laughing on the other side of your face. I, like most of us, am still waiting. Why didn't I just keep my mouth shut?

TM = 2010 draft at pick 53= 194 cm's. JW = 2008 draft at pick number 1 = 196 cm's. Tommy played on Sam Day who is 196 cm and was taken at pick 3 in 2010.

Perhaps Quid Pro Quo is more apt in this case

I think most on here are prepared to do just that Boss. Most are not trying to assassinate him on here. Simply we are asking (hoping), that together with his undoubted talent, he can do the team things which are required of every player who aspire to being elite. Jack's obvious natural talent suggests he can be. We are simply hoping that after 5 years, he gets to the point of being a consistent team player and elite. If not for our collective sake, then his own.

As with every AFL player, it comes that when it's your turn to go for it and put your body on the line, you do just that, when the opportunity presents. I do not doubt Jack's skills, but he is not exempted from doing the "team" thing, which every AFL player is expected to do. In saying this, I am not asking that he commits football suicide, I simply ask that he takes his turn. No other 'elite' player shirks that responsibility.

Unfortunately, it is the "kids", who, may now have even entered the workforce, who won't pay up. They have been bludgeoned into submission due to so many years of inept displays on the field. PJ himself has admitted that the MFC has betrayed trust of these lapsed supporters/members. In today's world of footy, which is now business afterall, you don't have to be Einstein to work out why people have voted with their feet. That said, while disappointed with Sunday, I saw something, which I haven't seen for at least 4 years. While the turnovers were atrocious and clearly we are still below par in terms of skill level, I thought we had a fair dinkum crack, with some obvious exceptions. There is a spirit within in the group I have not seen for a long time. Just loved the endeavour of Jones, Viney and Dawes and while I have been an ardent critic of Pederson, i thought his attack on the footy was sensational. I just hope that peoples' patience will hold out just that bit longer.

Before I start, this is not meant to be a 'name drop'. Was fortunate enough to go into the rooms after Sunday's game. Of course the hope was we could sing the song with the boys after a victory, but that was obviously not to be. The main group which came out of the meeting was the back line group. Rawlings spent a long time talking to them very quietly. After a short time, some others trickled out of the meeting with the Coach, but no sign of JW. Just outside the 'cage' a Board member was talking to a woman - whose role I am unsure of - and asked "Where's Jack". I am assuming the question was relating to Jack Watts. The woman responded, "Roosy's kept him in for a bit of a chat". About 10 minutes later, Jack appears, bag in hand, hugs Mum and leaves. We left at the same time. The only consolation was the little girl outside the club room doors who presented Jack with a bunch of Easter eggs. It appeared Jack had not even had a shower. He looked pretty down, as did Roosy in the rooms. Make of this what you will, but I would not be surprised if it's in Salem, out Watts next week.

I doubt we will ever see anything approaching what Jimmy did in our lifetime.

Unfortunately, as often happens, the essence of the point is missed. Let's just move on, delete or lock the topic.

fair enough. no problem here. move on. Sorry to trouble you.

I don't think I ever said that did I. But happy if you can tell me of any other AFL club that comes close to our set-up.

Settled???? That is my point exactly. Again, I am not arguing any merits for the Saints move to the Junction Oval. This simply is about a physical and spiritual home. Given our current malaise, I would say we are anything but settled.. Footy Department at AAMI, Admin at the 'G, train on Gosch's paddock, with the occasional sojourn down to Casey. Settled !!!!!!

It is reported that the Saints are considering a move back to the Junction Oval, as a base. This is a place that has not been 'home' for the Saints for almost 50 years, following their move to Moorabbin in 1965. It is understood that the Saints are in talks with Cricket Victoria, with a joint tenancy arrangement being considered. I am not arguing the merits of the proposed move or otherwise, but rather, I look at it in the context of the Dees nomadic existence since 1966. It is not all that long ago we were offered the old Olympic swimming pool/Glasshouse stadium as a home, but we rejected that opportunity. Of course this is now Collingwood's Westpac Centre. Ideas have be wafting - and it would seem that has been about all - about a possible home, at some indefinite time in the future, somewhere in the Docklands for the Dees. We are still waiting. Right now, our football department is separated from our Administration, with the former being at AAMI and the Admin at the MCG. Like I said, I am not attempting to debate the merits or otherwise of the purported move by the Saints to the Junction Oval, where Dees supporters better memories lie in our more recent history. Rather, I contrast it with our lack of a real home and wonder if this is just another symptom of the malaise that has beset us for almost the same period since the Saints were last based at the Junction Oval. I would be interested in others' thoughts.

Best of luck Mitch. But as with all of us, as a long suffering supporter of this club, I feel almost desperate enough to seek the services of a white witch to break the apparent hex on this club. Just how many more good people are going to be cut down, following their association with the MFC?

IN Barassi............ 's famous quote, "if it is to be, it's up to me Out: We're just no bloody good