Vipercrunch

Tricky situation for Yze to go in as kind of the "next best option" if the reports that Clarko is the GWS first choice.  Second best to Clarko is still a big deal, but if/when results aren't coming, will GWS be patient or does it come in play?

Simple question.

If we lose on Friday and don't finish Top 4, can we win the premiership?

I am of the opinion that absolutely we can and that the with the current finals structure, finishing 5th or 6th gives perhaps an even easier road to PF weekend than finishing 3rd or 4th.

2 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

… or the “Dees won’t win a flag in 2022” thread. Actually, there’s no shortage of ridiculous, negativity-laden threads from which to choose. 

Some Doomsayers are more evagelical than others so need their own platform to preach their messages of misery from.

7 hours ago, Uncle Fester said:

There really isn't too much difference between this time last year, and now. 2 wins (that we easily could have had in the last couple of weeks), not much % wise, very wide open field... and I think a lot of us forget that we were a Gawn goal from finishing 3rd.

Sure from here it only takes one bad game to be bundled out, but none of the teams scare me - home or away. We are right in it, and we are definitely going to be considered the team to beat in two weeks. 

100%.  Our raw Win/loss record is very comparable but we've had a much harded season to contend with.

I believe our 2022 season has actually been an improvement on 2021 when you take in all the factors above and you look past the incredible final 45 minutes of footy we played in 2021.  We are not playing our best footy and must improve in many areas to win it all again, but that is exactly the situation we were in at this time in 2021.  

51 minutes ago, Bimbo said:

I think you are massively underrating the games of Petty and May.  

Two of McKay's goals that i remember were from a free kick against Brayshaw and a kick over the top.  Neither May's fault.

Curnow's points were from half chances.  Snaps that would have been brilliant, although unlikely, goals.  He had the only mark goal between the two of them i think.

These were ideal matchups from Melbournes point of view and great games by both their players against the likely Coleman medalist and one of the best forwards in the game.

McKay also got at least a goal from one of those soft down the ground calls I think also, but the one over the top was completely on May.  May was with McKay in the centre square before deciding to leave him to try and impact the kick going to Curnow.  Unfortunately it was a total miscalculation as he got no where near it but by the thime he realised it McKay was 30 metres away.  Yes it's the way team defence works, but if you leave your man to impact a contest, you need to actually impact the contest which in this case he got wrong.  He and Petty still played good games though.

1 minute ago, Rhino said:

And Melbourne full back !!  

Is it the same guy?

1 minute ago, Maldonboy38 said:

McCartin played on, took two steps off his line, was pressured, then took it over the line. Should have been a free kick to Swans because the Pies player ran over the mark, or a behind if the ump did not see that Pies error, a  behind.

Your first sentence is spot on, but your second sentence is nonsense.  After the mark, which he claimed and the umpire paid, he played on, so the magpie player can go wherever he likes.  Then he walked it over the goal line.  Easy deliberate call.

Just now, Die Hard Demon said:

well none of what you just said is in the official AFL rules so idfk 

Yes it is and has been since they tightened the rule up when it was getting abused by several teams.  Playing on from a kick in, mark or free kick and waiting for the pressure to come then walking over the line is a deliberate free kick.

Just now, Die Hard Demon said:

mate.. the rule clearly states that you’re allowed to rush a behind if you under immediate pressure. The mark has nothing to do with it. 

No.  If you take a mark you have an un-pressured kick to take if you want it.  If you play on and the pressure comes, that’s on you and you lose the get out excuse.  Otherwise we return to the dark old days when rushing behinds was abused terribly.

1 minute ago, Die Hard Demon said:

Worst umpiring decision of the year. First it was paid a mark, pie player runs over the mark, umpire calls play on, mccartin under immediate pressure & rushes a behind. NOT A FREEKICK! That umpire should be SACKED!

It was both correct and very obvious.  He claimed the mark and was paid the mark.  Then he played on, panicked when the pressure came and walked it over.   Easy free kick call to make.

4 minutes ago, Mr Steve said:

How hot was that. Has that been payed before this year.

The deliberate rushed?  Doesn’t come up much but that was the correct call.  Took the mark (and he knew it despite claiming he didn’t), so therefore no pressure excuse, then walked it over.  Brain fart by the defender.  

1 hour ago, whatwhat say what said:

agreed on 1, but i think their best players remain imports

i'd say some have got better since getting to the aints, including some you mentioned - steele has become their best player, by some margin, while howard and higgins have got more playing time and thus got better and wood is a better player at the aints than he was at the kangas

what they've definitely done is recruit a heap of players past their prime and expected them to be key players - hannebury, hill crouch, jones - or as stop-gap measures who are still miles better than their own developed secondary options, like ryder

their development of talent has been pretty bad throughout the modern era 

I had forgotten about Steele and he is a good player but I don’t think he has exceeded expectations that were on him when he came in from GWS where it was the extremely stacked midfield that was denying him opportunity.  Howard’s trajectory was AA when at Port where he was in the leadership group (and captained once).  Higgins while sometimes very good is very inconsistent, no different to when he was at Richmond.  And looking at Wood’s averages for goals and disposals there is very little reason to say he is now a better player than at North (1.2 goals and 12.9 disposals at North, 0.6 goals and 14.5 disposals at Saints).  No one will be writing articles about any of them when they retire saying how their move to the Saints was the making of their careers.

Two things I noticed from last night.

1. However bad our MFCSS gets at times, we should all be thanking our lucky stars or deity of choice that we we aren’t Saint supporters. That is one tough gig.
2. Unlike many clubs, StK don’t seem to be able to bring the best out of players they trade for.  Very few playing last night seem to have improved since moving there.  Higgins, Howard, Crouch, Hill, Jones, Wood all arguably played better before moving to the saints as did Hannebery and Ryder who didn’t play last night.  Long term “good” teams improve players they trade for.

I’m blaming the Collingwood ferals at the game last Friday for my positive Covid test today.  I’m sure it’s their fault.

5 minutes ago, rpfc said:

Yeah, I write as a blend of fandom and on field. It’s a joy, just enjoy it.

Although we did get a glimpse into our arrogance and condescension with Ed Langdon’s opinion of the opposition as limited, and his confidence of being able to shut off their limited play by proclaiming it to Andrew’s Maher and Gaze.

While I can’t confirm our complacency, I have been seeing it with my lying eyes the entire season; the 10 game winning streak of playing half a game or less, the direction of the coaching staff to not bother with forward pressure (you don’t go from top 4 to last because of anything else) and to just let the opposition to ‘crash against the rocks’ across our half back line…

Do we know what happens to rock when enough water hits it? 

We have been flirting with our form all year for reasons that I can glean but they are reasons that don’t respect our opposition and how hard it is to maintain this kind of form.

Perhaps there is some truth to that,  but until season is over, I find it very hard to conclude anything.  Form, fitness and perhaps even 100% correct mindset can’t be maintained at the highest or “perfect” level for 6 months.  There have to be fluctuations and perhaps the greatest trick to coaching a team looking to go back-to-back is to manipulate those fluctuations to ensure the team peaks at everything in September.  To do so might mean some seemingly broken things get ignored for long periods, which frustrate us all, but with the aim to make the corrections at the right time to bring everything together at the desired time.   6 weeks to see if the coaches can deliver and get the team playing to its full potential, which I think most Demonlanders think is good enough to win it all.

2 minutes ago, rpfc said:

Melbourne fans bloodletting after a top of the table loss because we are oh so awesome. If you think what fans think is irrelevant then what the [censored] are you doing on here?

It’s irrelevant to the outcome’s on the field.  I thought that would be clear…..

17 hours ago, The heart beats true said:

Gees Josh Kennedy has been a fantastic player. He just seems like a quality guy. Doesn’t think he’s saving the world, just wants to play footy.

He should be so proud of his career.

Absolutley agree.   Unlike many good players from other teams who act or play in a style that makes them extremely dislikable, I've never had anything else than repsct for JK.  Wonderful career.  WCE clearly won in the Judd trade in my opinion, which is amazing in itself given how good Judd was.  8 goals in his last game is a very fitting way to go out.

• I think the "Melksham instead of a genuine tall forward" experiment is over.  There were so many times that our small forwards and midfielders easily got to the fall of kicks into the F50 but instead of contesting the mark, took position front and centre expecting one of our talls to contest only for there to be an uncontested mark to Collingwood.  We can't allow that to continue so need to bring in someone to support BBB.  I think Weids is out of chances so has to be JVR or Joel SMith if he trains well.
• No more of Max starting at FF.  Start him in the middle.  Jackson made some costly errors early on Friday and is still a second ruck that can provide some great cameos as the game wears on.
• It's not pooular but I can see why we kick to the pocket.  They went end to end on us after an intercept mark in the middle of our back 50 late on Friday.  That doesn't happen if the intercept is deep in the pocket.
• They broke us down and scored by creating overlap at our half forward area.  Too many bees to the honey pot was often the cause initially then they got the run through the corridor and took it forward at speed which is very hard to defend.  Was it our system not working or was it someone (or several) not sticking to the system?  Whatever it was, it needs work to combat Collingwood and Sydney's ball movement.
• Cold comfort, but we actually got a lot of things right.  I went home thinking that 4 out of 5 times we'd probably win that game.  We won most key stats, kicked for goal badly, watched them kick for goal unbelievably and didn't get the rub of the green with HTB frees in front of goals (the McCreey non call in our goal square soon followed by the red hot call against JJ quite soon after stand out).  The expected score had us winning by 13 points.
• Fingers crossed it is 2018 repeating, with Collingwood playing the role of 2018's Melbourne side, who when playing an exciting brand of footy went to Perth late in the season to beat WCE.  "The Dees played eye-catching footy, moving the ball with pace and putting West Coast's rock-solid defence under severe pressure." was how it was reported.  We all remember how 2018 ended up.

9 hours ago, rpfc said:

I can see Collingwood’s belief taking them to a Prelim. And from there anything is possible as they found out in 2010 and 2018.

It sounds trite, but god we skipped over earnest and honest enjoyment of footy to arrogant expectation due to 4 games of footy last year - it is so hard to win a flag, let alone repeat and we should respect those that are rising (or hopefully falling - Geelong) more than we do. Collingwood remind me of us in 2018. We were brash and a bit sloppy but hard as nails and willing to work. We beat a hardened Geelong and a Hawthorn team with little left but then were dispatched by a WCE team that respected us enough to destroy us and everything we stood for. 

We need to show that same respect.

Who is "we"?  The fans, in which case it is utterly irrelavant if some of the fan base is arrogant and disrespectful, or is "we" the players and coaches, in whch case you have no idea of their attitude.

41 minutes ago, binman said:

Spargo and kossie are every bit as bad as Ginnivan.

And selwood has been doing it for years, just not in front of goal so it has been ignored.

I agree they shouldn't get a free if tbe6 demonstrably drop the knees, but personally I'd prefer more emphasis on the tackler not going high.

Tackle them around the waist and its not an issue.

Spargo and Kozzy both do it but I’d argue it’s as bad.  And the AFL should have stopped Selwood doing it 15 years ago but they fluffed it.  However, JG took it to a new level by making winning the high free his first and only goal when confronting a tackler.  Once the dust settles the game will be much better off.  Whether Jack has enough other strengths in his game to remain affective at the highest level remains to be seen.

Edit for clarification - I’ve never liked Spargo and Kozzy doing it, or any other Melbourne player.  I loved Brad Green but disliked when he started throwing his head back late in his career.  Playing for a free is totally against what I view as the mythical “spirit of the game”.

8 minutes ago, binman said:

The way the poor bugger is being umpired he wouldn't get a free for that!

The poor bugger should stop dropping the knees.  The one against Essendon that caused all the uproar was only a mistake because it lingered high and became overly agressive.  AFL's call was contact was only high because JG lowered himself so intially the call of play on was correct but the "make him earn it" aspect that wasn't called a free was the error.

Just now, chook fowler said:

I thought we were ok in the rain.

We're fine in the rain.  Just makes for unpleasant viewing.  It will be worth it at the final siren though.

 Bring ya ponchos folks 

I heard today the AFL were expecting a crowd of just over 60,000. Maybe this is a well thought out strategy to get that to close to 80,000 instead. Unfortunately if they attend hoping for a close one, they’re going to be disappointed.  Melbourne by 50+.

He played forward at AFL level in late 2018 didn’t he?  So this isn’t entirely new or unexpected is it?