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Here you go DangerousDan... If that is your real name... It most likely is not... rpfc isn't mine either... How could it be? Doesn't have a vowel. Names really need vowels...

Making an arrogant stand on a moral high horse that involves a star player is fraught with danger and bufoonery. It's also a neat carnival trick...

Well, there you go. I guess it won't help Miller and Newton then...

Don't accuse me of being a bully just because I ask for clarification on an opinion with a caustic tone. If you want unchallenged opining on a particular subject: get a blog and disable the comments. This is a forum, designed to offer the chance for people to get real time feedback on their opinions from people who are interested in the same subject as them. Just trying to tease out why many feel Mahoney cannot coach. And removing him is an indictment on his coaching. If you don't want to justify your opinions you don't have to. But get off your tall stallion. Final judgement? Hardly. I want those in this thread advocating the dismissal of Mahoney to give me the reasons why. I want their replies. I shouldn't have used 'daft' or 'nonsense' to describe your opinions and for that I apologise. But an opinion without evidence isn't much of an opinion at all. I will try a more sophisticated adjective next time.

Ok, now we are getting somewhere. What leads you to believe he is knack-less. I, and probably the club, have little idea whether JM can coach but I just feel you should provide more detail. This is the guts of what you are saying, and I agree to an large extent, a specialist kicking coach is a luxury I hope we can afford next year and in the very important years to come. However, with all due respect, you were not arguing an addition to the coaching staff but a replacement for Mahoney. The ones who are belittleling your opinion are the ones ignoring this thread. Perhaps I shouldn't have said that this was all nonsense because it wasn't. The nonsense I saw was the indictment of Mahoney and I broadstroked the rest of what you said. And for that I apologise.

By 'cameos' do you mean games played or good games played? I expect the FD to pump 16+ games into him next year and Jack to play well in about 5. So you're right about a handful of 'cameo' performances, but we need to develop our future CHF by playing him at the highest level as much as we can in 2010. At the risk of losing on the day.

It sure does, and I have the right to poke holes in it. You have the right to be critical. Why is he the weak link? What did you just say? You said you didn't rate Mahoney as a coach for 'what they require.' Do they require coaching? You want Neita to come back for one day a week to teach Miller and Newton to kick properly, say that. I want someone to teach Jack Watts, Matty Bate, and Liam Jurrah to lead to the right areas, to lead to space and to learn to use their body better in contests. I have no reason to suspect that Mahoney cannot help them in these areas. BTW, teaching Miller and Newton to kick at this stage would be like getting a pedicure on a gangrenous foot.

Good thinking. I'm sure Schwab would have hinted at that. I hope we told him to get effed because no-one should (sob) be paid more (sob) than Cameron Bruce (wahhhhh).

I could accuse you of being the 'know-all' because you are indicting the coaching of Josh Mahoney on very little evidence. He's a great bloke and doesn't deserve being rubbished because he doesn't have a 'name.' When we are getting 55 Inside 50s a game and are not turning that dominance into winning scores then you can say something is rotten down forward at the Dees.

You see, this is all nonsense. No-one on this thread knows the workings of the Senior coach, let alone the Line coaches. You all seem so daft when you give these nonsensical "reasons" for a coach to not be up to the standard required. Our forward line gets starved every week and is given awful delivery and still looks reasonably dangerous. Any future hiring would be concentrated on helping Bate, Watts, Jurrah, and Wonaeamirri. Not Miller and Newton. Teaching them to kick straight will only help Peter German...

Boo hoo. A player wants more from us just because we have come last two years in a row... It just doesn't make sense. And Bruce is on $550k a year but Burgoyne is worth $400k. And for him (sob) to ask (sob) for more than Bruce is just (sob) disrespectful. I mean, you'd think he was a Premiership midfielder and an All-Australian. And Pick 18 means a guaranteed star, and it's not like we have any talent from the pointy end of the draft. All we have from the top 15 is Jones, Watts, McLean, Bate, Frawley, Morton, Sylvia, Dunn, Grimes, Bell, Scully and Trengove. And it's like he is auctioning himself off, he should just come to us through the PSD and say pretty things about the MFC or he should just retire from football gracefully.

Mahoney can't help them? Why not?

Money Some of you are being a bit precious... Ooohhh, he wants more money from the team that finished last two years in a row than the team that won the whole effing thing less than 12 months ago. And giving that money to our younger players is the dumbest idea in a thread full of them; If you over pay now, you will certainly over pay when we are half decent or fully decent in a few years time. Thank God Bruce and Green are tying up a $1m. Pick 18 And as for Pick 18 being held up as this panacea to our KPP woes (if there are any) it is a speculative pick in the best of drafts and this is not the best of drafts. If the club is so worried about getting a Kossie to our Riewoldt they will take a tall kid at Pick 2. Too old Burgoyne will be 27 in 2010, Davey will be 26. I hope that says a little about whether he will be around for our 'window.' Staying in the hunt As I have said, we are being used as leverage by Burgoyne's management, but considering PA's recalcitrance and arrogance we may end up with a very good player fall in our laps. With all that said, we should be whispering in the ears of managers left and right...

Unless delisted, he cannot go into the ND.

Because of expectations, it was an underwhelming 2009. Will be 'gifted' games in 2010. And so he should be, he is our future, he is a massive investment and we need to pump games into him early to develop him as quickly as possible. Really want him to play 16-22 games next season.

Bate, Watts, Sylvia, Wonaeamirri, Petterd, and Jurrah will kick enough goals. Martin and Jamar will create enough contests. They will make a functioning forward line. I am far more concerned with who is going to get the pill and kick it, properly, into the forward line.

It's amazing how 2cms is the difference between a KPF and a medium-small with no chance of being a focal point. Fevola is 191cm. Such a shame, if only he was 193cm he would be a decent FF. Thems the traps. He's a [censored] anyway...

I would prefer to pay Burgoyne $800k in 2010 rather than spread that $800k around to our 20/21 year olds. I don't think it would be healthy to have these young guys on inflated contracts now as in 3 years time when they ask for real money and we are in the 8, they (And by that I mean Nixon, Connor, Pickering and the other merry men) will ask for wages that are unrealistic and constrictive.

Nah. Get better players in the midfield and then see how we go at developing that area against other teams. BTW, Davey, Moloney, Jones, Jetta, Petterd, Sylvia, Morton, Grimes, and Bennell either had good first up seasons rotating through the middle or had better seasons than previous years. But Williams isn't a good coach because he has improved their performances but it hasn't led to wins? Our players are either crap, young, or asked to do too much. (Bolded that because we are about to enter 2010 with unrealistic expectations and patience is not only desired, it's required)

You're right, Nasher. I personally apologise to all who think with that unassailable logic. They are truly giants among men.

Why? Explain to me why the midfield line/development coach Mark Williams should be fired.

He can get better than what he showed in 2009 but... Just a warning - he will have a good Bluey finish. So don't get up in arms and whinge about the 'favourites' of the FD. He had a number of solid games amongst some shockers. Putting my neck out on this one, but I'm confident.

Yeah, Cam Mooney is like Michael Newton... Talk about rose-coloured beer goggles...

No it should be Beamer because he is the best handballer in the side... Best leader who will be around for 5 years at least - Moloney, McLean, or Davey. Green and Bruce have been great servants of the club, and selfless and courageous players. But leadership does not come naturally to those two.

If Jack Watts learns how to put the work in the summer that Miller does he will be as good as Riewoldt. Works his arse off. If Watts gleans that from Brad Miller, I will be eternally grateful to the man.