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And the kids were kept out of the more serious stuff, the 'match sim...kind of' stuff was reserved for those in the mix IMO and for the best players to get some familiarity with each other.

Salem and JKH looked solid, did most things. Toumpas runs like a gazelle, a heavily pregnant gazelle, but did some really good things until he came off frustrated with what looked to be, and TDI confirms, to be tightness. Kent looks good, I will be effusive about him. Him and Garlett are the hope up forward for smalls and they both look like footy players. Know where it's falling, good skills, read the kick well, etc. But again, if you want to get excited about a kid - his name is Hogan. He is a mountain already with a bemused look at training of a bloke that just wants the real stuff to start.

So he's done after this then? Good to know.

It's hard to judge how players go at training, both did some good link play in drills with neat skills but if you were a neutral you would see Jones, Tyson, Lumumba, Hogan and the rest...

Was my first session for a year at least, as much as they change, they stay the same. The major drills: Offence 'out the back' from half back - this is a standard one but does give a window into how we will move the footy. Essentially, unless you are Jones and you can break through a stoppage chest going forward, you have to hand it back and then look across CHB for a short switch as first option, if that instant kick isn't there, run 10 and kick it to the other HBF/wing and run it through that side of the ground and hit a target. This looked good, and the guys look to have committed to the 'out the back' release as I will touch on with Viney later. Hands across the ground (rucks and fwds worked on technique) - this was basically a hot potato across the ground to goals that teams had to hand pass through from point blank. This was a bit of a mess with all the kids giving some questionable hands, but they played it pretty hard. While this was on Stafford too the rucks in technique and competing when the ball hit the ground. There was a bit to this, simple but good habits. Dawes and Hogan were pitted against Miller in a series of one on ones where he got them to lead different ways; drop back, hold ground and push sideways, lead up and out, etc. This was excellent. Bring it back from half back or make a stop - this is another simple drill, almost like keepings off with the goal of bringing it back down the other end of the ground or stop the other team doing that. They split into three teams to do this and it was tough to get through. Sometimes it is hard to know whether that is a good thing or a bad thing... Viney got stuck into Harmes (I think) for not giving it out the back of a pack once, he hesitated slightly and Jack got into him, it was good to see that it is so much of a focus that it is the point of the drill. Fitz got falconed in kick to kick... Centre work with spread/fwds leading/defenders roll out and competing - the centre work was pretty simple but confident and played in good spirit... The forwards were learning how to lead straight, push-off opponent turn-around lead, lead toward goal, and lead fat side one after the other. Another impressive yet simple drill that I was pleased to see. The defenders get the crappy drills... Roll out ball, two teams competing to bring it back to coach with hands... Boring. Match sim...kind of - first choice mids and fwds vs the rest but the rest included 3 extra players. And Tyson, Jones, and Lumumba were beating the the team with three extra by themselves... It was a bit frustrating to Roos who exclaimed to the White team that they had three extra players 'think about it'... Tyson was running rings around whoever that it was actually good for the mindset of the rest that Michie caught up with him at one point and buried him - he deserved it... Apart from the running to finish that was what I gleaned. Random thoughts: Lumumba will play midfield from the sets he was looking at. Watts is fit but looked a bit pained, hope he gets over his groin issue for next year. Rehab boys were doing a lot of work. Trengove the outlier. Howe likes being a forward... Like Miller as a coach. Hogan looks like he is a 5 year pro. Dawes looks so much thinner, still strong, but his knee will have to carry less weight now. Very fit. Goodwin torped one 70m. He should be playing... Goschs in great nick, it was good to be back in the greatest city on the planet, go the Dees.

It's crossed my mind watching them the last few years... And I just meant that a beep test is more a measurement of fitness relating to endurance rather than a way of building endurance - which is the harder work and that would be why Petracca finds it tougher at AFL training than in a 12 min measurement.

Very good day, but can we not damn others on the decision of Nathan and the club? We don't know how much more the club wanted to keep some players over others and I have my eye on a certain free agent from another club that I hope doesn't do what Jones has just done. Some players move, some clubs can't keep them, or don't want them. Thankfully, Nathan and the club wanted what we wanted...

I did a 13 beep test a few months ago... 193cm, 100kgs... I don't mind the beep test but if you are half fit, you should be able to get in the teens rather easily. I just wouldn't equate it to competitive running and sprint work at training.

What if he wants $700k? Or $800k? Send him on his way?

I wouldn't advise them to read this site even when we are winning. It's like social media, the players don't real time updates of what the fans think of them. There is no value for the players to get involved in a forum designed to dissect the club they play at and the players themselves. They get the drift from those leaning over the fence in games anyway...

How can he be 'our best defender' when he was the first one to make way when we didn't have a forward to kick to? McDonald and Dunn are different players but I would rate them better. I also rate Garland when he is 'in sorts'...

And the kids that are not ready, will not play; hooray for that...

Did I read effing 'moneyball' again?!

There is a mistake in 2012 - the CPs and UPs are swapped around.

I don't think there are many that don't think Nathan Jones is just tops. What I am wondering about is the disconnect between what Nathan Jones will do as a leader and so loyal he will stay, and the desire to get Dangerfield (or any FA) to do the opposite to Adelaide and come here. You mention what the club wants - and maybe what happened to Frawley was also what the club wanted, and we should not be damning a bloke with poor character when he wasn't wanted by his club? And on your last point - what about if he doesn't think we are offering enough money? What if he takes a humble discount for all the success we are promising and Dangerfield arrives on double that? I don't think it is very simple at all.

What point are you trying to make again?

I might even make it, I will be there - sniper rifle in hand...

You are more patient than me with doing that, well done. As for what it all means - maybe not much, but the improvement that I saw in CP and UP are reflected in these stats and if they continue like this we might even be a middling team next year...

I have argued in the past that this issue can't be rectified cleanly without hurting lower teams more than higher teams. If we get Dangerfield and have to give up ND4 or ND23 and ND42 - that doesn't help us, and nor is it clean. In the MLB, there is a rule that FAs are graded and clubs who get FAs to their clubs lose picks, but top 10 picks are protected. However, in that sport, the draft is simply an entryway into the system, rookies barely play in their first 4 seasons as 'pros.' The situation where a team loses ND11, but the next team doesn't lose ND10 is the kind of troublesome outcome where teams middling teams are hurt by these rules. Hawthorn may not have lost anything - but they paid a lot of money for him... Perhaps 'grading' players and only allowing top 4 teams to have 1 an off-season, or one every two off-seasons... The NFL have a similar arrangement.

Well, I just hope that Dangerfield is as awful a person and non-leader as Frawley is...

I was more looking at year to year improvement but here they are: 2012 Differentials Clearances: -6.2 Inside 50s: -11 CPs: -12.1 UPs: -41 Margin: -34.6 2011 Differentials Clearances: -2.3 Inside 50s: -6.1 CPs: -5.5 UPs: -10.8 Margin: -15.5 In 2012, we won 23 quarters and in 2011 we won 30 quarters.

Those of you who have been here a while would remember my old KPI threads... Well, I could do them until the reading was too depressing. Anyway, I thought I would add a differential comparison thread for prosterity after Roos' first season; on margin, clearances, I50s, Contested Possies, and Uncontested Possies. In no way does data give you a full picture of what is happening, but it can illuminate and educate. 2013 Differentials Clearances: -9.7 Inside 50s: -18 UPs: -56.7 CPs: -23.5 Margin: -56.2 2014 Differentials Clearances: -4.8 Inside 50s: -11.6 UPs: -6.5 CPs: -1.5 Margin: -28.1 Now these numbers are still pathetic, but the levels have risen across the board to these pathetic levels; the club is coming from that far back... I was interested to know what has improved other than what my eyes are telling me. We also won 10 more quarters (30) than in 2013. The last few games were not great, but the improvement was palpable and hopefully it continues into 2015.

Garlett, Dawes, and Hogan can all kick 30 goals. But let's get the ball in the 50 more times than 40.5 times a game - that is 10 less than an average team...

Could you please run through what went wrong here? I think you will find nothing went wrong, people overreacted, the thread derailed and here we are. Onto the next training thread!

Oh FFS, get your hand off of it. The players can take the [censored] but we can't? We will be here a lot longer than the players you talk to.