1964_2

6 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Not sure why the 'yeah nah' then in response to me saying 'don't change the game plan'?

Nev, Jimmy is a former “high grade player” so apparently his insights are more valuable.

Needs to change the name to “Jimmy - high grade player” so we all give him the appropriate respect. 
 

2 hours ago, —coach— said:

As much as I love Max I think this in an opportunity. It was alluded to by someone from the Sydney camp before the game last week that they were setting their midfield up to shark Gawns taps. In effect assuming they would lose the tap and instead just clamp down on our mids, this seemed to play out at times with the limited room and space we had at stoppages. Add an extra around the ball which the oppo has done of late and it adds up the handball merry go round leading to a turnover we’ve been doing a lot of lately.

Perhaps now our mids can be the hunters rather than hunted and we can freshen up our approach to stoppages.

I am really looking forward to the upside surprise I think we will all get from Jackson having 80% ruck time 

33 minutes ago, binman said:

Excellent points.

As dpostive correctly notes we were ahead late in all three losses. So we had our chances to scramble a win. I was really impressed by Freo's win against the hawks for this reason ie they did scramble a win when clearly fatigued.

Last year we did well to scramble some wins in this period (though still went 3 losses, 1 draw and 2 wins from rounds 13 -19).

The Port, Swans and Bombers games were all good examples of us winning when playing sub optimally. Unfortunately this year the outs and injuries, and in particular the in game injuries, have made things that much harder for us. 

For context, we were 11-2 at this same stage last year. We are 10-3 now, so in much the same position. I actually think we have played really well in all three losses given the challenges we have faced.

Yes loading carries a risk in the short term in terms of losing games we might otherwise win, but we have no chance of winning a flag without loading now. Nor do the Freo, Saints, Lions or the blues (the teams fighting for a top 4 spot - no other team has realistic chance of winning the flag this year)

Nothing has changed. We are the best team in the AFL. By a significant margin.

That is of course no guarantee we will win this year's flag.

By far the biggest determinant of success in the AFL is injury. Always has been and always will be. If we have a bad run with injury between now and the end of the season then we won't win the flag. 

If we have a good run with injury, i am extremely confident we will win the flag. 

Goody has said we are in better shape this season than last year. People can scoff all they want, but that is his stated opinion. And i'm happy to accept the word of our head coach. 

All the hand wringers (i don't count you in this group layzie) should harden up and have some bloody faith. Surely the club has earned that. 

 

When did he say this? Not doubting you, just be keen to see the comments in context 

24 minutes ago, binman said:

Excellent points.

As dpostive correctly notes we were ahead late in all three losses. So we had our chances to scramble a win. I was really impressed by Freo's win against the hawks for this reason ie they did scramble a win when clearly fatigued.

Last year we did well to scramble some wins in this period (though still went 3 losses, 1 draw and 2 wins from rounds 13 -19).

The Port, Swans and Bombers games were all good examples of us winning when playing sub optimally. Unfortunately this year the outs and injuries, and in particular the in game injuries, have made things that much harder for us. 

For context, we were 11-2 at this same stage last year. We are 10-3 now, so in much the same position. I actually think we have played really well in all three losses given the challenges we have faced.

Yes loading carries a risk in the short term in terms of losing games we might otherwise win, but we have no chance of winning a flag without loading now. Nor do the Freo, Saints, Lions or the blues (the teams fighting for a top 4 spot - no other team has realistic chance of winning the flag this year)

Nothing has changed. We are the best team in the AFL. By a significant margin.

That is of course no guarantee we will win this year's flag.

By far the biggest determinant of success in the AFL is injury. Always has been and always will be. If we have a bad run with injury between now and the end of the season then we won't win the flag. 

If we have a good run with injury, i am extremely confident we will win the flag. 

Goody has said we are in better shape this season than last year. People can scoff all they want, but that is his stated opinion. And i'm happy to accept the word of our head coach. 

All the hand wringers (i don't count you in this group layzie) should harden up and have some bloody faith. Surely the club has earned that. 

 

Bring on $5 odds for the flag.

"gamble responsibly"

1 hour ago, layzie said:

I'm more than happy to accept loading as a key factor, what I don't want it to take away from is our ability to play the game of football. This means gathering a ball cleanly, handballing to someone 3 metres away, making good decisions etc.

I am glad to see Binman presenting facts on loading and being unequivocal in his stance on this, I respect that a lot. What I don't want is people (and yes they are in the minority) using loading as an excuse for missing a shot from 15 out, fumbling in the goal square and stuff like that. Yes we might be loading but I still want to win the games if we have a chance to because otherwise scrap loading just send a reserves team out there. 

This has also been discussed. Fatigue means greater risk of skill/execution errors. 

So, unfortunately am going to have to disagree with your point above, and say that yes loading also has an effect on basic football skills / execution. 

Be hard to argue it’s a coincidence that the worst of our skill / execution errors have occurred in 2nd halves over the last 3 weeks. 
 

1 minute ago, layzie said:

Next four are Bris, Adel, Geel, Port. Not ideal but not the scariest jobs for Jackson ruck wise. 

Good point. Great opportunity for King Jacko! 

Think Jacko will cover the ruck easily enough.

The bigger issue will be less big man depth in the forward line and around the ground:-

Maybe it forces us to try something different that works though. Does a smaller fwd line stop us from bombing it inside 50 in hope

12 minutes ago, ElDiablo14 said:

Question remains, are we the only single team that does loading? No other team out there seems to be struggling like we are with stamina.

We are the only team that was 10-0, and in a position to push the "loading" to the limits. 

54 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

As always on Demonland, people look for one answer or one issue, when the reality is that things are not that straightforward.

I'd suggest the following are all factors:

1. mid-game injuries which throw our balance - May, Petracca and Petty against Fremantle, then Turner, Gawn and Petty against Collingwood;
2. too many issues in our back half - no May, Petty playing half-injured, Lever, Hunt and Rivers all out of form, Hibberd and Salem working back into AFL-level fitness;
3. too many issues with our marking forwards - no TMac, B Brown out of form, M Brown not good enough, Weideman a mix of out of form and/or not good enough;
4. not enough pressure being applied in the forward half, giving our opponent the ease of moving the ball through the corridor;
5. too many turnovers, particularly when trying to deliver the ball inside 50.

We fixed some of the above mid-season last year (the last three, for example). But we didn't have to deal with the first two of those issues last year.

The two most disappointing features over the losses have been watching a 20+ point lead disappear, too easily, all three times, and our inability to cover our missing players. I'm disappointed that May not playing has been as impactful as it has been, and ditto TMac.

I believe we can turn around our issues, because we by and large faced the same issues last year and turned it around. But this time we don't have a soft fixture patch to get going like we did last year (we had GC, West Coast and Adelaide in Rounds 20-22, which led into the Geelong game and finals). We're going to have to find our form pretty quickly against top 8 sides because that's what our fixture presents us. It's not going to be easy, and right now I don't think you can criticise anyone who thinks top 4 is a longshot.

Can’t criticise anyone for an opinion.

Rather anyone that thinks Dees top 4 is a long shot, should be loading up on who they think will replace us :- as we are currently paying $1.25 for top 4. 

5 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

 

Some of us have been highlighting absent players, illness, in game injuries and opp tactics for weeks only for them to be given lip service with 'loading' proposed as the major cause of our recent performances. 

Glad to see they are now being given at least equal recognition with 'loading'.

I think the “loading” crew have acknowledged that it is one key factor amongst injuries, illness etc. 

The thing that the “loading” crew side of the fence has disputed, is that the players are on mass suddenly not fit, forgotten the game plan, can’t run out 2nd half’s anymore etc. 

In terms of oppo tactics, that becomes much easier when playing a team affected by the above. Ie Those oppo tactics won’t work, when we are back up and running again. 

4 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

any chance you could guide me to the nearest second, so I don't have to listen to Dwayne? 😘

Multiple comments that alluded to much the same point:- but 4 - 5 mins in, he says something like “who knows, maybe they are doing an element of planning to make sure they are peaking at the end of the year”  basically refuting Dwayne’s speculation that we are not fit enough.

8 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

Please expand on that, good sir...

N.Jones with Dwayne (hope the link works)

https://webplayer.whooshkaa.com/show/1940?theme=light&episode=1008299

2 minutes ago, binman said:

Maybe.

But i reckon discussing it goes against the footballer's code to never, under any circumstances provide any contextual info that even remotely could be perceived as making an excuse. 

And becuase ex footballers have always dominated the coverage of the game, that stupid mantra has infected the footy media.  

Think Jonesy let the cat out of the bag on SEN today, but other than that agree with your point. 

1 hour ago, binman said:

I don't get this layzie

Why is it supposed to be an afterthought,  not a hot topic of conversation?  

Even if, like your good self,  you are not convinced about loading, but are not ruling it out, i reckon it SHOULD be a hot topic of conversation. 

The thing i find bizarre is it's not a topic that is discussed AT ALL by the so called football analysts and media people when trying to work out what is happening at the dees.

Instead they cast around for all manner of causes and theories to explain our slump. Just as they did last year, and in 2018, 2019 and 2020 to explain the ultimate premiership winner's mid season form slumps (remarkably similar to ours). 

I mean, even if you don't buy loading, or think it only has a minor impact, surely the fact the last four premiers' seasons have followed almost the identical pattern (start strong and bank wins, mid season form slump including some truly mystifying losses to crap teams, finishing the season full of running and all having a very similar number of wins) would be worth noting and exploring.

It's possible the fact the last four premiers have followed an almost identical pattern on the way to their flag is simply a coincidence . But logic suggests that it is unlikely to be the case. And even if it is, the fact we are mirroring that same pattern this year is worthy of analysis and discussion. Instead they all ignore it all together.

After 8 rounds or so David King said 'Be very afraid, Melbourne are going at about 70 per cent of last year, and they’re already proving they’re 50 per cent better than the rest of the competition'.

We completely drop off a cliff and go from one of the fittest sides to one that getting overrun in second halves - again, just as we did last season at the same point in time. And David King jumps off us, is all symptoms but can't nail a cause. And doesn't even touch on loading as a potential factor. Bizarre. 

What i find really curious is why loading it is not discussed - even if only to debunk it - by any of the analysts, ex footballers or commentators. In other words, why isn't it a hot topic of conversation?

(I have made this point any number of times, but to be clear, i don't think loading is the only factor contributing to our currently predictable form slump. I do think it is the MAIN factor, but our injuries, the impact of covid and the flu, the form of individual players, other teams developing good plans to negate our strengths etc etc are all factors too)

 

“Loading” doesn’t generate clicks, sell newspapers.

And a key reason the media pump up champions (eg demons first 10 rounds), is in the desperate hope that they fail!  Gives them the opportunity to capitalise on both opposite extremes of reader/viewer emotions 

2 minutes ago, CYB said:

Why is it a big secret? if they are loading just somebody from the club come out and say it! It doesn’t have to be disrespectful to the oppos but give the fan base some explanation of the cliff dive drop in form.

 

You don’t think that would give opposition coaches a few ideas how to exploit us? 

ie no chance in hell would the club ever come out and say it. 

11 minutes ago, JimmyGadson said:

No one is expecting him to dominate. 

Gahd damn Demonland is the place for wild exaggeration. 

If two first round picks (1 inside 5 and one inside 15) are up for grabs then we take and run. 

Genuine marking key forwards are our issue and will be going forward. Stop gap ruckmen are easy to come by and we'll have Gawn for another two or three years. 

Jackson will be a great player. But he will never be worth two top end first rounders. And that's what West Coast will be willing to pay. 

This is about sustained success. Not a flash in the pan grand final. I want to see us compete with the big boys for a number of years. A year of pain won't matter if it gives us multiple future years of flag chances. 

 

Can only assume this post is a rev up. Wont give it any more credit than that 

7 minutes ago, BDA said:

Think I’ll take a break from DL under after the bye. Leave it to the wrist slashers until then

Same :) 

9 goals to 3 in the 2nd half, giving up a 20 point + lead in the first half for the 3rd week in a row.

Nup nothing to see here,  no trend, no similarities to last year :- just a dominant team from earlier in the year, that is now useless apparently :) 

funny stuff. 
 

2 hours ago, Demons11 said:

100% agree mate!!! I wish we could trade some supporters

He was exceptional. A 20 year old ruckman, standing up on the big stage again.

Bring on the “supporter trade period”

5 minutes ago, Stein9193 said:

Well good on you mate, you're a true Australian hero.

Thank you for your service..

Get on the beers legend, I don’t think you have had enough yet.

8 minutes ago, Stein9193 said:

Mate, get pitted seriously. For someone who's only rocked up here since we won a flag that is the richest thing I've heard today. All you do is run your mouth attacking people here who go week in week out, it's fitting that your name is 1964 you belong there you big dinosaur.

Ha, can’t defend our reputation as snow loving fair weathered supporters, after reading the junk written in here. 

27 minutes ago, praha said:

I was clipping blokes for saying Collingwood was going to win. But after today I see the light. It's a trend now.

Well ship off to the snow then :- and make sure you don’t take more worthy supporters finals tickets 

1 minute ago, Lord Nev said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just collating for future reference.

 

Have done the same thing Nev :- what an embarrassing lot of “supporters” on this site. 
 

All you blokes that sook up when we lose are not real supporters. And gee I hope I never see one of you w$nk$rs talking positively when we are back on top of our game again! 

2 hours ago, Kick_It_To_Pickett said:

I feel for Jones. I really do. However, I’ve never quite understood the story of whether he was told he wouldn’t be picked to play in the GF, or whether he made the decision to go home after the prelim because his wife was due. What I mean is, was Jones told by Goodwin you that he wouldn’t be the sub? Or did Jones just go home? I still think he was entitled to play as the sub, but even if he’d been in form at the time, he would have had to choose between the birth of his twins and a Grand Final.

He explains it in depth in a recent “dyl and friends” podcast.

Basically knew that the only way he would get a game was via an injury. Pressure from the mrs came the day after the prelim, and he just felt the right thing to do was be at the birth, rather than hang around hoping for an injury and potentially missing both the GF and the birth 

40 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Well he hasn't.

You're going purely off stats alone.

His impact this year has been poor. 

Agree wholeheartedly. A lot will argue based on thay 5 minute patchwork off the Grand Final which realistically as @Bring-Back-Powell pointed out other then a follow up work, most of the work was done by Oliver, Petracca and Viney. 

I've been waiting for him to stamp his influence around the ground this year but he hasn't. His first instinct is always to handball when when he's got space in front of him to take the game on and get the ball forward. Is this coaching or him just not confident enough still.

I still put this down to Covid with his form, but right now other then the Gold Coast game he's had zero influence this year.

Haha “zero influence”

Gee there are some short memories in here.

Just 2-3 weeks ago, widely acknowledged as one of the best 2 man ruck combo’s EVER.

Also widely acknowledged that a key reason why we were 10-0, was the strength of having 2 of the best ruckman in the game in the same team.