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13 minutes ago, binman said:

That's exactly right. 

And critically, it's not just our forward who are not getting back quickly enough, or in enough numbers, it's the mids, wingers and half back flankers.

No swarm and wave running.

When you look at that footage showed, it is all one on one in our forward line as theball arrives

The point montagna fails to mention, is our offensive model relies on our swarm and running in waves of mutiple players, some of whom get ahead of the ball and create a numerical advantage inside our 50. So, often, mutiple free Ayers inside our 50.

No swarm equals forward entries and forward line not working.

As an example of tbat swarm, a poster (apologies to them I can't remember who) pointed to that brilliant goal Sparrow set up for fritter in the goal square against the lions.

Ironically, montagna showed that vision at the time  to highlight the incredible running the dees do ' Sparrow started that scoring chain from deep in our defence, and tracked the ball all the way down the ground running flat out. As did 3 or 4 other players.

He also pointed Sparrow's opponent simply could not go with him, and mutiple giant's players were haunches over completely spent. This was in round 3, so the giants would have been at peak fitness 

I think it was nibbler wee o kicked it deep to tbe pocket out in front of Sparrow, but whoever Iit was had three free option he could have chosen.

That is how our offence worked.

It is so simistic to simply blame our forwards, as montagna did in thst spot the other night - particularly given selwood broke the rule and dared to mention the impact of loading.

I mean c'mon , montagna knows that's the cause, but doesn't say it because fox, seven, the radio stations and the afl fear being honest with footy fans will hurt ratings.

 

100%.

This has been my thoughts this week watching King, Montagna, Ross Lyon etc all fail to mention the obvious loading impact, and instead add fuel to the fire of the “are the wheels falling off” thematic. 

For whatever reason clearly a media agenda :- probably adds more interest to have the average punter thinking/hoping that the dominant/best team in the league has suddenly forgotten how to execute it’s very successful plan. 

1 minute ago, Demon Dynasty said:

Might be worth playing Dogga at CHF for most of the match.  Weid mostly in the ruck.  Let them share the two roles.  Roughly Weid 60% Ruck/ Dogga 60% CHF and reverse for the other 40% excluding time on the bench of course.

I reckon Weid is ok at holding his own and neutralising many of the ruck contests.  I recall him playing nearly a whole quarter there in one match earlier in the season and we did alright out of the middle. 

The oppo also wont have much intel on Weid rucking & in theory they wont be able to read/steal his taps as often.  Something we've seen the oppo mids do quite a bit against Maxy & Dogga this season.

Doubt the above will happen but wouldn't mind seeing Weid play a fair % (at least 50% or so) in the ruck tomorrow night.

No thanks.

lets back Jacko in for 80% ruck, and be able to make a fair assessment of what we can do with a ruck playing as an extra midfielder :-  Have a strong feeling we will all be pleasantly surprised. 

“If we lose on Thursday” 

- Demonland will blow up with negativity (more than usual)

- Will be a media pile on:- “season over”, “No Max, no Melbourne”, “entrecôte hangover”, “premiership hangover” etc etc.

BUT, we will still win the flag. 

19 hours ago, CYB said:

Well, the most valuable insight the Ch 7 broadcast has ever give me was "Bang, Bang, Bang".

And if you combine dusty & Daicos you get Petracca :) 

44 minutes ago, BW511 said:

Jacko for Andy B, straight swap.

Peter Bell might not physically survive

 

 

True, but he would look like a genius in a few years when Jacko peaks. 

2 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Disagree on that part mate. He's not going to play better in the midfield than he currently is at half back, and on top of that; all it takes is one head knock and his market value dissipates.

Fair call on both fronts!

I guess you let other teams speculate on the upside they could generate from playing him in the middle 

5 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

Thanks. Now I’m developing a conspiracy theory on a relationship between Brayshaws contract and Jackson’s? 🤔

Can’t see freo letting Brayshaw go. And hopefully we would be demanding if it required a couple of 2nd tier Freo players.

With the money we will have to put up to keep jacko (and then Oliver next year), you do wonder if we will be able to pay Gus somewhere near his market value to keep him. All the more reason to play him in the middle and drive up his market value. 

Love them both, but if we had to let one go, it be Gus (just because we have more similar players) 

1 hour ago, BW511 said:

You can certainly tweak it from week to week but you have to be applying more load as a general trend, so a 4 game period of heavy load one week, light the next and then repeated would offer little benefit.

This image is describes it in it's most simple form, although it would be more complicated and specific to peaking in then holding that through September

 

 

If we are following this graph, you would think the first 4 week block has been done.

planned recovery during the bye. Come out and smash the lions.

Then another 4 week loading block up until R18/19. 

-      If we beat lions & crows and lose to Cats & Port we will be 12-5 heading into our R19 clash with the dogs (obviously could be a different combination, but 2W, 2L is probably a fair assumption during this period)

-     Then worst case we win 3 of our last 5 to finish up 15-7, best case we finish strong like last year winning our last 5 to be 17-5. 

-       In summary, I am of the opinion that 5W, 4L will be our worst case, and 7W, 2L will be our best case scenarios from here

-       Sure injuries are the key risk to the above, but it needs to be remembered, during our 10-0 patch, all the talk was how amazing our depth is.   I believe this to still be the case. 

6 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

Did you manage to listen to the commentary from Grandstand?

Heard some snippets on Triple M EO.

Ross Lyon and Montagna reflected on how they usually had some form of “loading” program, with varying levels of effectiveness  each year, partly dependant on fixtures, days break, W/L position at time of year etc 

13 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

There is no doubt that player age (time in system), biomechanical and physological output matters when setting up training cycles.

What I am fascinated about is that - let's assume that each club (18) have the top/best/most experienced, and thus all are  abrest of 'best practice' in exercise sport science.

Are the variations of loading between teams, governed by personal philosophy based on historical experience (Burgess overtly spoke about that on the podcast of his philosophy changing), or is it more nuanced and individual player based?

Would it be based on opposition you are playing over  say rounds 9-13 as well as looking at where you are currently points-wise to get to the post season?

 

 

Be fascinating to be a fly on the wall for the discussions amongst football departments.

Given all the variables, you would imagine there would be varying opinions on the best approach.

With some of those opinions remaining silent and choosing to be guided by sports science. 
 

It is very interesting that Chris Scott decided to speak up, and ensure there is a valid excuse for any near term poor performances (Reminds me of his prelim final gastro comments/excuse) 

9 minutes ago, Vipercrunch said:

I think the shorter preseason would have meant we worked a little harder on the track over the early H&A season period compared to 2021, but I think the main two cycles we want to get in will be the same.  One 4 or 5 week cycle before the bye, use the CBA agreed 4 days off over the bye as a rest/recovery period before another 4 or 5 weeks after.  This will leave us with the final 4 or 5 rounds to iron out gameplan, form and personell issues and training will become all about maintiaing the fitness levels rather than improving fitness.

What this means for how we perfrom against Brisbane is anyones guess though?  We won our game after last seasons bye against Essendon, but played quite poorly.  This year the bye is extra short though, so we won't be getting in a full week of heavy training before we play (maybe 2 sessions), so would could come out quite fresh.  The other unknown is what Brisbane are doin.  They will be desperate to avoid going out in straight sets again, so might be loading to the extreme.  It could be a very error riddled game.  

Makes sense. Bris looked flat pre the bye, so it could very easily be two teams both affected by a similar training phase. 

Other factor is the chance that more teams than usual have copied our loading program from last year :-  Copying the prior years premiers is a common theme for AFL.
 

2 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

One could make the assumption that they looked at their schedule... worked out where weaker opposition was, to start loading around that mark...knowing that they could lose, and what the optics look like externally.

One could also make that same assumption about Melbourne vs WCE and North + the addition of having a two game break on our nearest competitors that time, and the FD choose to continue with a particular style of heavier training, for presumed peak fitness (aside from collision injuries) later on in the post season.

ie: The luxury of the buffer has allowed us to continue to look a bit $hite rather than not loading, and carrying on...

Given we have got the tough games of Bris and Geel in the next 3 weeks, maybe we went earlier with the loading this year (during Nth+WC), allowing us to ease up over the next couple of weeks training.

Or maybe they are willing to risk one or both of Bris & Geel, for future fitness benefits.

Lets say we lose both, and beat Adel :-  11-5 is still a very strong position to be in, given the teams output is likely to increase from R18/19ish 

Time will tell. 

1 hour ago, DemonWA said:

I don't think the debate has ever been about whether loading occurs- the debate is whether it is the primary reason for our form slump. 

Yep, and after watching Geel and some other top teams struggle (who are clearly also loading) :- I am even more firmly of the opinion that it is the primary reason for our form slump (closely followed by injuries)

Geel were terrible yest:- and Scott & Selwood, confirmed the loading. If they were playing any other team than West Coast or Nth, they definitely would have lost. 
 

Agree with this. Came 3rd in the Brownlow as a mid. Kicking & footy smarts has gone through the roof since this time. 

At least trial it for a 1-2 week period. 

19 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

https://www.afl.com.au/news/781691/-we-set-up-our-program-to-be-at-our-best-when-it-counts-cats-bold-plan-to-peak-at-right-time
 

Conjecture over. Looks like some clubs are openly discussing it now.

Debate over.

And I wonder why the cats are pushing the loading harder than usual this year??!  Maybe because they witnessed the benefits of it from their opponent in the 2021 prelim. 
 

Just now, BenF said:

Why are we bothering to play the games if we're just going to lose anyway due to loading? Ìts complete crap.

nearly won 1 maybe 2 out of the 3 :- and the sacrifice means we be peaking at the pointy end of the season. 

What is so difficult to comprehend??

You don’t win flags without planning/training to be peaking at the right time of the year 

Just now, Sir Why You Little said:

We led all 3 games comfortably and then stopped, that has nothing to do with luck.
Once momentum shifted we had no answer 3 times

Exactly. One of the most dominant second half teams for 10 rounds (who went 10-0), suddenly has very little run/effort/pressure 3 weeks in a row to defend sizeable leads??    Does anything more actually need to be spelled out??     And if that is not simple enough to work out, have a look at what the premiership winning team did around this time last year?? 

That's me tapping out. Will be back in a month or so, to watch the "detractors" come crawling back. 

Go Dees. 

1 minute ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Well then there won’t be a problem, but until that happens it will be discussed on a discussion board 

Losing 2 in a row can be explained 

Losing 3 is atrend

happy to discuss. But am just struggling listening to someone asking for changes (that don't actually make any sense) when their basis is on a lack of information vs the people employed to make the changes (who do have most of the information)

Clearly the club didn't plan to loose 3 in a row. But with a bit of luck (less mid game injuries etc) we would have won 1 maybe 2 of the 3 (and be either 12-1 or 11-2), at the same time as setting ourselves up to be peaking at the pointy end of the year. 

Just struggle to see why it is so difficult for people to comprehend what is going on at the moment. 

Just now, Sir Why You Little said:

The players are playing that way….

i can only go on what i am seeing 

And you think what you are seeing / thinking is more valuable/important than the people who have the information you don't?

Just now, Sir Why You Little said:

No I don’t.
But 3 weeks to lose EXACTLY the same way each time. That is enough evidence to tell me there is a problem. 
How big that problem is, we will all find out soon enough.

We used to thrive in the 3rd Quarter

Now that has dried up completely.

Why? and how to fix it….. 

What if the people who do have the information, have confidence that the problem wont be a problem for too much longer? 

Problem solving / creative thinking doesn't appear to be a strength on the old demonland. 

5 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I am not panicking. But to lose 3 times in a row the exact same way tells me the system is not working with the available personel

Respect your opinion, but you don't have all the information around the current situation.

Happy to respect/trust the person/team that does have most of the information.

2 hours ago, Vipercrunch said:

I did some reseaarch this afternoon about previous premiers.  Apart from Hawthorn in 2015, and ignoring 2020 which was so impacted by COVID, all other sides since 2014 have perfromed worse in the middle of the season compared to the rest.  Melbourne 2021 had the biggest drop off, Richmond 2017 close behind.

I was surprised that Melbourne last year was the most dominate season in that time.  It's more than possible to win premierships while also losing 6 or 7 games during the home and away season.

This is A++ research.

Have taken screenshots of all the "supporters" who have [censored] their pants during this period. Cant wait to call them out, when they get positive again towards the end of the year. 

Just now, Sir Why You Little said:

Different personel need to be shuffled around to cover injuries and form. For the last 3 games we have lost in exactly the same fashion 

The Game Plan needs a re jig, for the run home

Or does it??!

Maybe the coach has a reason not to panic, like the majority of his snow loving, fair weathered supporters? 

3 minutes ago, layzie said:

Ouch Jack

Like an ex mrs/mr saying they should have cut you after the first night isn’t it 

All you "demons bashers" need to listen in to the Demonland podcast :- Some A+ content being discussed right now.