Accepting Mediocrity

Are there though? There's not a shred of supporting evidence from any objective source that I've come across. The "obvious anomalies" claims have only come from alt-right 'news' sources, Trump's lawyers and twitter. Of course these claims will be investigated, but there's not a legal basis for any of it, nor any actual evidence other than wild conspiracy theories. If you have any links (other than Breitbart, Sky News, etc), I'd be interested to see them.

Really hope he gets picked up as a DFA, just so Ben Brown can kick a bag on him one more time In all seriousness though, best of luck to him. A limited footballer, but he's far better than many on here give credit for (not saying much I know). You don't play 81 games of AFL without a hell of a lot of hard work and talent. I always thought he played as though he read the comments about him on Demonland.

Nick Riewoldt also spent most of his final season dominating games from a wing, and that was 2017. Obviously Tmac is nowhere near those guys in terms of ability, but the precedent is definitely there. There's absolutely no reason why a tall, marking endurance beast shouldn't be effective on a wing in modern footy. The problem is that the same issues that affect him up forward won't magically disappear on the wing. He won't get any faster or hold marks better just because he's in a different part of the ground. That said, if he can get his body right, it's definitely something that would be worth exploring IMO. He won't get a look in up forward unless Weideman or Brown get injured, and he's probably behind Jackson as well. There's not a lot to lose from trying.

Geelong have recruited well, but recent history isn't on their side. Going back to 2014, losing grand finalists have been Fremantle, West Coast, Sydney, Adelaide, Collingwood and GWS. Collingwood is the only side to finish top 4 after losing the grand final, and Freo, Sydney, Adelaide and GWS all imploded. It's deeply flawed logic that we need a team to drop out for us to make the 8 though. Who dislodged us after 2018? No one did, we stank it up and dislodged ourselves. All teams start 0-0; if we win 13+ games, we'll make finals no matter what the other teams do.

How much do you wanna bet this time?

The net trade of Preuss for Ben Brown is the most outrageous piece of swindling since that Canadian bloke traded a paperclip for a house.

He's shown all of the traits required to be a good key forward, we just haven't seen them all come together yet. Takes marks, tackles hard and kicks goals. Tick, tick and tick. Every key forward in the league misses goals they should kick; it's the misses that stand out in the memory. Weideman kicked 19.8 this year - his accuracy is way above average. His set shot technique is a massive strength IMO. I think the opposite. In fact, I can't think of a single example of a key forward becoming less effective after another is traded in. Brown will make the Weid's job easier, not harder.

Well thank christ for that. A small victory for sanity, science, democracy and basic human decency. Also, gloating Trump supporters make gloating Richmond supporters seem like rational, intelligent Dees supporters (apologies to a certain poster in this thread).

To quote Churchill, "Democracy is the worst form of Government except for all the others". I think we take it for granted here in Australia. Hundreds of years of evidence shows pretty clearly that people living in democracies have a much, much better quality of life than those in other Governments. I have a good friend from Iran; hearing her talk of daily life back home is pretty confronting.

Worth noting that Jarrad Waite played the best footy of his career when he was the second tall in the forwardline with Brown (despite being in his mid 30's at that point). It cannot be overstated how much this will help Weideman. That's probably what he's worth if North didn't play this so badly. They are getting shafted big time. A Coleman medalist in his prime for a second rounder is daylight robbery. Couldn't be happier!

Off the top of my head, recent trades with Collingwood: Dunn, Howe, Dawes, Kennedy, Lumumba. We've been shafted with every single one. Please don't go there Melbourne (although Stephenson's best footy is pretty damn good).

At least give us a riddle.

Not upset about missing Smith, but that's simply untrue about Lewis. 3rd and 10th in the Bluey in 17 & 18, and was one of our best in the first 2 finals (with an all time shocker against the eagles in the prelim). I don't understand the hate on here.

We gave TMac a contract extension at the start of 2018 before his value peaked. We've had plenty of 'gun' players turn to crap immediately after signing long-term contracts, but he isn't one of them.

Bit revisionist IMO - TMac was an excellent forward for 1 and a half seasons in his own right. Remember that goal he kicked to win the game against the eagles in Perth in 17? Very, very few players are capable of that. He was covering huge amounts of territory, marking everything that came his way and was a ridiculously accurate set shot - defenders can't do much about that. He made some damn good defenders look average. Compare that with the last 2 years - he's struggled to get off the ground, fumbled marks and moves slower than a month of Melbourne lockdown. It would be interesting to compare his GPS numbers, but I'd be willing to bet they would be pretty telling. If he can recapture the form and confidence he had in 17/18, I have absolutely no doubt that he'll be just as damaging. Highly unlikely that it happens though.

This has been written about Brown so often that it's become an assumed fact, but what does it even mean? All full forwards lead at the ball carrier when they have the space. Tom Hawkins, one of the best contested marking forwards in the league, is arguably coming off a career best season. He averaged 1.5 contested marks per game. Ben Brown averages 1.6 contested marks per game across his entire career. Brown is a damn good forward and much more rounded player than most give him credit for. If he gets back to anything even close to his best form with us, he will improve our forwardline immeasurably. If we could get him for a second round pick, that would be one of the biggest steals at the trade table in living memory.

One of the biggest myths in footy I reckon. North's midfield have woeful skills, yet Brown has consistently kicked 60 goals a year. Good key forwards kick goals no matter who is delivering it to them. Hell, Mitch Clark was averaging over 2 goals a game for us before he broke his foot circa 2012, and that was in one of the worst teams ever fielded.

Credit where it's due, he was just about BOG in that grand final. No such thing as an easy flag. Was disappointed when he left, he was a shining light in some pretty dark times. As a Dee, his battles with Buddy Franklin were always a highlight. He was pretty much universally recognized as the best young full back in the league for a while there. He never reached the heights we all predicted, but he retires as a 239 game, All Australian premiership player. Not too many Demons with that resume. Solid career whichever way you look at it.

According to my inner optimist: Outside of our best 6-8 players, our entire list under-performed this year. Senior players in Melksham, Harmes, Lever, Brayshaw, Hannan, Tomlinson all had down years - they are all in their prime and are capable of playing far better footy than they produced this year. Another pre-season into developing players Weideman, Jackson, Rivers, Kosi, Sparrow, Spargo (yes I rate him), Petty et al. Barring injury, this group will be better in 2021. Worth remembering that Richmond finished 13th in 2016, lost one of their best players in Deledio, recruited a couple of hacks in Nankervis and Caddy, and paid pick 6 for Prestia, which they were widely ridiculed for. Things can turn around quickly. I'd be surprised if we don't win the flag next year really.

The parallels between Port and MFC are interesting. Made a prelim (2014) from outside the top 4, were widely tipped to be a premiership threat the following year, then churned out a few thoroughly underwhelming years outside the 8. Coach somehow survives, top up with some young talent in the draft, and here they are a few years later, odds on to make a grand final.

There have been plenty of examples of 'master' coaches turning into unmitigated disasters at new clubs. Pagan, Thompson, Worsfold, Malthouse (at Carlton), Blight. Off the top of my head, the only recent examples I can recall that have come anywhere near a flag are Maltouse at Collingwood and Ross Lyon at Freo. Clarkson has a damn fine record, but he won his flags on the back of an incredible list that he built from the ground up. Taking charge of a new team and steering it to a flag is a different task altogether.

The fact that he was still best 22 for most of his last year with us suggests that we didn't. He played some damn good footy as recently as 2019 (yes, along with a few shockers). Not his fault no one stood up to take his spot in the team. If we didn't offer him the third year, we probably wouldn't have been able to poach him from the hawks in the first place. Agree with others on here - Jordan Lewis was a great pickup and did exactly what we recruited him for. 3rd and 10th in the Bluey in his first 2 years, plus all the leadership he provided. Very good chance that we wouldn't have made a prelim without him on the list. RE Smith, I think it's a pretty straightforward equation - do our medicos think his body is good for another 2 years? If so, it's a no brainer really. He'd come cheap, and even in the twilight of his career, he's a far, far better winger than anyone else on our list (bar Langdon).

Won't happen for a couple of reasons. Firstly, what's in it for North or Adelaide? They need to recruit and develop talent now, not in 12 months. We'd need to offer significant overs to even start a conversation with them. Secondly, barring exceptional circumstances (i.e. Pickett last year), there's no point going all out to draft on a needs basis (especially with no exposed form). Macrae might turn out to be a good player, and he might even turn out to be the type of player that we currently need. But he won't be that player for at least 3 years, and who knows what happens in that time? Baker, Rivers or even someone like Jackson might develop into the wingers we currently lack and we'll have bigger needs elsewhere. Completely unfair and untrue. Sometimes, we get both dud brothers.

Think that's pretty ambitious for a fringe player. For reference, Dan Butler got traded for pick 56 - he is/was clearly a more valuable player than ANB, and had much better players keeping him out of Richmond's 22. ANB would net us a token 4th rounder. TBH he's probably worth more to us as depth, but I'm not really fussed if he goes.

Still think it was worth it. He didn't cost us any time, money or resources that we wouldn't have been spending anyway. Bit of nice PR for the club never hurts, even if it doesn't amount to much. I think one of the biggest positives is that we've demonstrated that our medical team is capable of bringing back a perennially injured player to match fitness (g'day Joe Daniher if ya reading mate).