tiers

Received text message on 19/12 that packs were with AusPost. Still not received today 2/1, two weeks later. I know about delays over the holiday period but on the same day that I received the text I ordered items from a Sydney store and received them via AusPost on 24/12. If they can do it, for them why can't AusPost deliver for MFC?

When two bodies collide at high intensity it is not always certain who will come off best. Stick to watching the ball.

What if Bruiser turns out to be a player, not a thug. We should not expect him to be the "pack crasher" just because he is bigger than most. My memory of the 50s and 60s is of a skillful, talented team and we won games for that reason and no other. I would prefer him to take marks or create crumbing opportunities and forget about all these other issues.

Certainly beautiful for the sponsors of the ball. Not too high start point and control with the right hand onto the foot. Left hand extended for good balance. His goal kicking action reminds me of Billy Bennett - straight, smooth ball drop and high follow through. Like the tongue - maintains focus.

Re Bruiser. From the one bit of vision, he can tap, mark, kick goals and make second efforts. And that is when he is standing still. Gets to lots of contests on the run and seems to have footy smarts. You don't kick goals from forward ruck contests or from 60+m out without some ability. Speed is not the only valuable attribute. The ability to read the play so as to get to contests and to favourable positions are just as valuable, especially for a 206 ruckman. Admittedly it is only one set of highlights but I say give him a go.

I like "Bruiser" as a nickname for Preuss so I will use it. Game plans for forward lines are often based on trying to create "imbalances" between direct opponents to obtain clear positional or team advantage for one team, even if only for short periods until the opposition responds. 206 cm tall Bruiser playing on anyone is going to be an imbalance. Will he demand the attention of the biggest/strongest defender thus relieving pressure on TMac and Weid or will he be manned by the second/third defender in the hope that he does not create havoc by his size and strength? Will he act as a decoy for TMac and Weid or will he play as a backstop in the goal square where his height and strength could be decisive in marking contests? How does the coach prevent all three contesting and spoiling each other? Given that he would ordinarily be one of three talls all requiring attention, it would be hard for defences to multi team him, or his teammates, in contests as used to happen to Jesse when he was one out. And from all accounts, he is a genuine ruckman/follower who might allow Maxie the time and space to be even more influential. Nice problem to have for us.

To rjay. That they haven't locked down a senior spot says more about our depth than their individual abilities. At times they have each shown serious potential. To FlashInThePan. I have been signing off many of my posts with '2020' for some time now. The derivation has three parts: 1. Brendan MaCartney once told me that it takes 5 years to train and develop a league footballer. 2020 will the year when many of our developing core players reach the 5 year milestone more or less ie Oliver, Brayshaw, Petracca, Harmes, Salem, Weideman, OMac, Nibbler, AVB 2. The late Dean Bailey used to say that it takes about 70 games played together as a group to develop the sense and instinctive understanding required to be a cohesive group. 2020 will also be the year when many of our players reach the 70 gamer milestone playing together as a group ie to the list above add Gawn, TMac,Jetta, Jones, 3. Our last flag was in 1964. 1+9+6+4 = 20. Could 2020 be an omen prediction. 2020 Go dees.

Ronny Lerner's best 22 plus 4 emergencies totals 26, any one of whom could competently fill a spot in the 22 and the team would lose little. In addition there is Stretch, Kennedy-Harris, Hunt and J Wagner who have shown that they can perform well at senior level. Plus there is hope for Preuss in a new team and game plan. All together a total of 30 who have performed at senior level. And that excludes any draftees and rookies who could develop. To say that the list thins out after the 24th player is itself a bit thin. Barring a catastrophic run of injuries to our key players, a team comprised of any combination of the 30 players would be competitive. We have competition and multiple options for most positions and no apparent serious deficiencies in any position. The perfect basis for major development. 2020 Go dees.

" can predict 60% of non contact injuries ". Do they have any contact injuries? As for the data it seems that, over the long term, the unbiased analysis of basic empirical data could be expected to produce patterns that would assist in preparing game plans and even selections against opposing teams to maximise chances. Are the data available for each team only or are they more broadly distributed to all teams against all opponents? If more broadly distributed then I can envisage a time where real time data analysis would supplant coaches' decision making. Please don't let that happen.

To Watson 11 re one on one stats. Using Rance a a model for a highly rated defender, it seems that the lower the % the better over a career. But is Taylor better than Rance (questionable based on AA selection) or is it really only a measure of game plan and game style for each player n a team? Is it better to never be outmarked or to prevail in ground contests? It would be interesting to see Neville's stats as he is rarely beaten one on one and also my perception is that Lynden Dunn was also very solid in one on one but only at ground level.

To Watson 11. Your description of the process ie working backwards after the fact to find a combination that matches the outcome, would imply that the calculation could produce a different result for each player and each team after each game. A post facto reality check that in 2017 we had a good list. Unless the results were either aggregated or otherwise moderated over a series of games, how would that assist in predicting outcomes of future games or is that not the intention of the algorithm?

It seems to me that the one stat that is missing is "value per possession". Of course this is so subjective to be impossible to measure but given that weagles stats in 2018 were not elite then perhaps there is something else out there. When I see Tracca receive the ball in a pack and in the mayhem turn around and off one step kick a goal tells me that possessions and score involvements are not enough. Or when I see Tracca receive in midfield, spot and deliver perfectly to Spargo who in a blink handballs to TMac for an easy goal, raw stats and algorithms become meaningless. It's all about that immeasurable quality - footy smarts. And we are starting to accumulate it is spades. 2020 Go dees.

In our backline we will have May and Lever, who were standout key defenders in their former teams, Hibbert is an All Aus, Nev who should be All Aus, OMac, Salem, Frost, Lewis, J Wagner, Fritsch, Smith, Kolo and others who can fill in. In our midfield we will have a rotating mix of Clarrie, Viney, Jones, Harmes, Brayshaw, Nibbles, Hunt, AVB, Stretcher and others who can fill in. All serviced by All Aus Maxie and perhaps Preuss. In our forward line we will have TMac, Weideman, Tracca, Melksham, Hannan, Garlett(?), Spargo and rotating midfielders and ruckmen who can kick goals. The key element is depth. And no one knows who might step up from the draftees and rookies. Give them time to play together as a unit to develop the innate and intuitive understanding that top teams show and I am confident that we can be successful. 2020. Go dees.

Incremental improvement will do.

Nathan Jones needs a new role. He has earned the right to be indulged a bit so long as he contributes and he is not keeping any one out. His best position is still inside mid to hold the ball in but he is being denied the role. Maybe others should be trained to play his outside role that is more natural for them. I see Harmes and Brayshaw with the right attributes. FD better think hard.

Peanuts, peanuts, shilling a bag, peanuts. He was at every game at the MCG. The old guy with his sack of pre packaged bags. Even to this day, whenever I say peanuts, this refrain comes back to me. And I never bought any.

My memories of 1964. They start at Glenferrie Oval in round 17. Hassa Mann kicked a goal from the boundary, we won by 4 points and we secured top spot. A loss would have placed us in real jeopardy. The following week we lost badly to the dogs but it did not affect first place. In those days, the finals were civilised. One final each week for four weeks. First semi, second semi, prelim and grand final. I had bought the cheapest standing room series tickets (yes, all four matches) in the open stand under the old scoreboard (now I believe at Manuka Oval - much more interesting but couldn't handle instant score reviews or obnoxious ads and interviews). Catters beat bombers in first semi then dees thrashed filth by 89 points in second semi. Filth beat catters by 4 points in a low scoring match in prelim. Then it was our turn. Not unexpectedly, after a 89 point flogging, we were deserved favourites. Torrid, hard contest all game and we were behind by 2 points at half time. 2.3 to 0.2 in the third gave us an 11 point lead at 3QT. Up until then the match had been an non momentous blur. Gabbo's run changed that. Ray Gabelich was a man mountain (listed as 6 foot 3 1/2 inches and 18 stone 10 pounds which translate to 192 cm and 120 kg) who, in those days, could take a whole season to get match fit because of his size and the slower pace of the game,. Until this day he had never run more than to the toilet but, when he gathered the ball and took off with no one between him and the goals, the ground shook. Step by step, crooked bounce by crooked bounce, he ran to the goal square and kicked a goal. Tony Anderson ran his guts out to reach him but was too late. I became a despondent, depressed, despairing demon and couldn't watch. I cannot recall watching Hassa miss but I came alive when i saw the ball sailing through the goals to where I was standing. Neil Crompton, the average rover who became a sensation in the back pocket, will live forever. We had reclaimed our rightful position as premiers and so the excitement and celebration was muted. If I had known what was to come, I might have celebrated harder. The following year, we won the first eight games straight (albeit some by small margins) until the day the world changed on Queen';s Birthday v sainters. Alan Jeans, their then coach, made the move of the century and swapped Bob Murray to FB and Verdun Howell to FF. They were on the road to success, we had tasted almost too much and we were thrashed by, I think, 63 points. We had started our long losing streak and didn't see finals again until 1987. This year's outcome is still to be revealed but I am heartened by the quality of the boys who represent our club. I believe that they are as good as any group we have had in 54 years and still have enormous potential. 2020 is the year when they should emerge as the beat. Fifty years later, I had the great thrill to attend a lunch at the Bentleigh Club to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the premiership. In attendance that day were 14 of the 20 premiership heroes. The team: Crompton Massey Johnson Davis Roet Anderson Adams Williams Dixon Vagg Jacobs Kenneally Lord Bourke Townsend McLean Emselle Goalkickers: Townsend 3 Lord 2 Bourke Mann CROMPTON 1 Scores: Q1 2.6.18 2.5.17 Q2 5.7.37 5.9.39 Q3 7.10.52 5.11.41 Q4 8.16.64 8.12.60 Go dees.

To MT64 - Steve Stevens was later Mayor of Moorabbin. Remember how goal umpires would always get it right without score reviews and conferences on the filed and were generally more mature, non athletic types.

He is a classic rover. Performs in bursts, runs hard low to the ground, picks up opportunistic possessions, smart footy brain under pressure and delivers well. Just because he doesn't rack up possessions doesn't mean he is not a revelation. Give him to McCartney for the summer and lets build his vision and skills. Strength and a tank can come later. Watch how Tracca seeks him out after the goal. Great leadership. He is fast becoming the "papa bear" of the forward line - the one who pats them on the head for good efforts.

How good was Weed when he took a long line of backward steps to mark near the boundary. Most players either turn around and mark it over their shoulder or trip/stumble getting back. His backward motion was safe and steady and he judged the drop of the ball perfectly. His marking skills such as judgement of the drop of the ball and timing for the leap are excellent and if left to develop over time his marking ability will become a weapon. He should also develop as a mobile ruckman who can do more than just negate. A candidate for the McCartney development school. Its been a long time since we had a follower (as they were once called) with strong marking and rucking ability to cruise around the ground and influence contests. He is potentially too valuable to be just a forward.

Should spend more time in cotton wool after games than is an ice bath. Reads the game well and has the ability to win the ball while on the move, push through packs and tackles and kick well on both sides. Complements the skills of Clarrie, Tracca and Viney. What a midfield group!

Hopefully one becomes Brayshaw and one becomes Petracca. Who needs more. Leave them alone.

What is the purpose of this thread? We have two of the best prospective genuine A-grade stars of the game and posters are splitting hairs about kicking ability, tank. Their respective abilities complement each other and the team. It's unseemly and demeaning for our boys and the club. Posters on this thread should show some respect, be grateful for our good fortune and do all to laud both Gus and Tracc. Beelzebub got it right. They're different. Happy to have both. +20 from me.

Re Pettracattack's support for Todd Viney. My criteria in selecting the team was to include those players that I considered to be skilled, courageous, attacking match winners. They had to possess both magical footy skills as well as the ability to win a match "off their own boot", so to speak. While Todd Viney was undoubtedly courageous and attacking, I never saw him as skilled or as a match winner. More tenacious and determined. In any event, there were only 22 positions available and someone had to miss out.

On 23 October I posted this comment: The very best team of the past 50 years must include the following (excluding current players whose careers have still to blossom): Alan Johnson, Steven Smith, Sean Wight; Brett Lovett, David Neitz, Gary Hardeman; Stan Alves, Greg Wells, Robert Flower; Garry Lyon, David Shwarz, Adem Yze; Gerard Healey, Allen Jakovich, Jeff Farmer; Jim Stynes, Shane Woewodin, Brian Wilson Int Gary Baker, Steven Tingay, Alan Obst, Glenn Lovett Skilled, courageous, attacking match winners. Unfortunately, the month of October coincides with the end of the footy and the onset of daylight saving and I reserve the right to review all decisions in that month. How could I have forgotten Travis Johnstone? His inclusion would make this team infinitely better as he would have the delight of playing with his peers and we would have the joy of watching his smooth, silky skills being used to advantage. Imagine Travis passing 50 to Jako. Apologies to Glenn Lovett - great player but not in the same league.