warren dean

Spot on! Reread my earlier post on this thread and you'll see that I'm not suggesting the coach market the club, just that we get somebody who can do it properly. Isn't Gardner supposed to be top of the tree in advertising?; wasn't Harris a big wig with the Age? Why did Danners need to become "The Reverend"? Marketing is everything to develop a brand - we have been shocking at it for a long time. We are one of the oldest sporting clubs in the world. We carry the name Melbourne. Everybody else should be chasing us instead of laughing at us! Bailey will need all the help he can get in making this club successful. We need a full time spruiker!

The comparison to Leon Baker is laughable. Baker was an absolute gun who probably should have won the "Normie" in the 84 GF, Bailey was a one paced battler who was very lucky to reach 50 games (and only did because he was another project of Sheeds). Just the same though, good to hear he has a sense of humour. He's certainly embarking on a career which requires a good one!

Hannabal, I'll forgive your ignorance on such matters and simply point out that whilst you are having a period of success you need to be able to capitalise on this through astute marketing. Winning helps but it does not necessarily translate to long term support or financial success e.g North Melbourne. You may have forgotten that Hawthorn almost merged in 1996 - only 5 years after their last flag because marketing wise they failed to capitalise on their sustained succes of the 1970's and 80's. So, winning games does not necessarily market the club - it may give it a short or long term high profile but not necessarily profitability. Cheers!!

I'm rapt they won two flags in the '90's. Proved that a small inner Melbourne club could compete with and beat the corporations. My point is that despite their success not even ten years ago, it was not enough to sustain them long term in Melbourne. You know as well as I that it is only a matter of time before their move to the GC becomes permanent. Marketing is as important as on-field success. Collingwood has won 1 flag in 50 years yet have always marketed themselves brilliantly, much as it pains me to say it! I think Bailey may be able to coach, but we need to market the club much better. It's a simple fact of sporting life!

Success is relative isn't it? One of our biggest problems is that even though we haven't won a flag in 43 years, our supporters rejoice in the fact that at least we have won more than St Kilda, Footscray etc, etc. Mediocrity far too easily accepted - and then the temerity to accuse the players of being soft!!

You would have been sitting in front of Steven Icke, who was recovering from a knee reco at the time, and didn't play for us again. He had been a very good player. Don't have a great recollection of Charles carrying on like a goose but it wouldn't surprise me that he did. I more remember the coulda been great Warren Dean playing a blinder - 2 Brownlow votes!

It obviously wasn't enough for the Kangas in the '90's!!

I started a thread on this a few weeks ago asking if anyone knew if he would get it. Didn't get one reply but I guess we know the answer now. Well done, Neale - a true Demon!

Their last flag is more recent than our last!

Remember it like yesterday. A 17 yo who should have been focusing on the Year 12 exams coming up in 2 months time, instead squashed against the fence on the Hawkins wing watching one of the more amazing games I have seen. The unbridled emotion afterwards topped anything I've seen at a Demons game before or since (including 2 prelim finals wins). The devastation and sense of disbelief three weeks later has also never been repeated. It was a tremendous year for the Demons, winning the night GF against the Bombers by 4 points as well.

Agree as well. Don't necessarily want him back, just making the observation that like a lot of former Demons he has experienced premiership success elsewhere - 2006 Armstrong, 2005 Jolly, 2004 Bishop, 2001-03 Pike. Bad luck for the Cats - they don't have any ex-Demons!!

I'm disappointed that we missed an opportunity that will never present itself again. Bailey may or may not turn out to be a great coach, but Sheedy is still the master. People go on about 40% win-loss ratios -if you take the last 2 years in isolation its actually much worse than that, but so what? You assess a person and a career over the entire journey. His record over 27 years is at 61% with 4 flags. He will retire with 2 flags less than Norm Smith but a better winning ratio. He has coached in a much more difficult era to win flags (esp for Vic clubs). The guy is a genius and like most greats his achievements will only be fully appreciated when he has finished up. I hope Bailey can coach, but fcs can we please find somebody to market the club? I predict no discernible move in membership next year, but with a better run with injury we may move up the ladder a bit. Bailey has no real playing record to stand on so I hope his leadership qualities are sufficient for him to gain the respect of the current list. Anyway, I'll continue to turn up to every Vic game as I have since 1980 and watch how it all unfolds!

Rhino, I never said one was better than the other. I wouldn't have traded Jolly and I would have increased his game time at the Demons after 04. I have never rated White - he has a reasonable record but has really only had 3 standout seasons (98, 2000 and 2004), which isn't enough for a bloke of his ability. Our rucks have been bordering on the pathetic since Whitey's AA season - and don't talk to me about AA being a recommendation on a players standing in the game. There have been some shocking AA selections over the years, including David Grant (who we recruited and was disgraceful). One good season can make you an AA and yes would have been happy to trade Jeff then as I would now. Jolly is a good back up ruck, better than both Johnson and Jamar. We would most likely have got a top 10 pick for Whitey as a 28 yo then - would have been ok with me. For all the good Whitey has been in the past three seasons, I don't think he has been in any way demonstrably better than probably half a dozen other rucks in the comp. Would the Swans have taken him? No, because his style of play is loose man/link - they have Goodes to fill that role. They recruited Jolly because they needed a body player to back up Ball and it worked a treat. Great recruiting, great management of the list. We got Dunn, could be a good player - I hope he is, but atm Jolly is way ahead!

But still has one more than Whitey's likely to win!

Yes Rhino, ordinary premiership players, as opposed to ordinary players!

Welcome to the MFC, Dean!

Hmmm! Now let me see. Jolly = Premiership player; Melbourne = 1 ruckmen neutered by the introduction of the circle, age and lack of height and not a lot else. Very smart list management! I think you are going just a tad early on the call that Dunn will be more valuable than Jolly.

Your faith in the board is admirable. That would be basically the same board that reappointed ND in 2004 for three years! I don't think the board delivered because you wanted it! If they listened to supporters our new coach wouldn't be who they appointed. This board (and just about all others) do not heed the wishes or views of supporters. That is not necessarily a bad thing, and I have no real issue with Bailey getting the job, but the upside of Sheedy was enormous and I find it hard to believe that in our current plight (losing money, losing staff and losing credibility) that we wouldn't go for someone with a proven record of success and instead punt on someone who might be a good coach. He certainly couldn't be any worse as a coach than he was as a player. For those who don't remember him, think Godfrey, only about half as fast and with about half as much skill and nowhere near the ticker. Having said that, good coaching is not necessarily about having a stellar playing record (Hafey and Jeans for example). I have now lived through five new eras (Barassi, Northey, Balme, Daniher and now Bailey) - still waiting!!!

Love your work! I might just have 2 and 3 in a different order. No doubt we need a profile and a hard edge. Sheeds is without doubt the man for us; if the brains trust see it otherwise I hope they go for Hardwick. The Bombers haven't overlooked Bailey for no reason - they realise the importance of profile to sustain membership.

Yes, the "transparent process" became a little less than crystal clear when Schwab became involved with the interviews after Sheeds presented. I hope you are wrong; I fear you may be right!

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story...5012432,00.html Here's the link for a slightly different view.

This is all BS! The priority pick system is overrated. The only priority pick who has come in and made a difference to his team in his first year is Judd - how many Judd's are out there? It is a future investment that may or may not pay off, but will give little if any return in 2008. We would be better off tryng to win and giving the young blokes we currently have in the side the opportunity to experience some success as well as sending off our retirees in a positive manner. Carlton are an absolute disgrace and should be ashamed of the way they have gone about it lately. You build successful clubs by trying to win, not lose. The best ruckman in the league (of all time if you listen to Sheahan) came off the rookie list! Forget all this crap and just win! I'm sick and tired of following a club that is a laughing stock. Just play to win, and do your club and that jumper proud!

What's so smart about Clarkson? He inherited a crappy list in a great draft position, traded a couple of hacks for a few more draft picks, spent two years at or near the bottom and then made the finals this year. Footy history is littered with these stories - three of the more recent ones are Schwab at Hawthorn, Frawley at Richmond and Connolly at Freo. They all had middling starts, all got to prelims at various stages and soon after it fell apart. I don't see anything much at Hawthorn that makes me think they're going to win the flag this year or next, or even the year after. If, as supporters all you are happy with is a "smart" coach who can get you to the finals we should have stuck with ND. His 6 finals in 9 years is a hell of a lot better than most coaches! Clarkson has benefitted from a very astute recruiting team, led by Chris Pelchen, and the club have made some good draft choices and known the right time to trade players. The jury is still very much out on Clarkson. We want somebody who we know will build an ongoing culture of success. Sheedy doesn't necessarily need to win as a flag, but set us on the path, much the same as Len Smith at Richmond before Hafey arrived. In that time he will build a club. We don't have time to be frigging around trying to break in a new, untried coach. I fear this club is whithering on the vine atm. We went down the untried coaching path with ND and it was moderately successful - we can no longer afford moderate success - we don't have the time!

As I have written elsewhere, I expect a bounce next year - with or without priority picks. The priority pick process is highly overrated and in the draft era, no club has won a flag soon after bottoming out for a couple of years. The Eagles are probably the closest (picking up Judd with a priority pick in 2001) but it still took them until last year to get the flag and they only had the one really bad year. Our real bounce next year will come from having a great coach (Sheedy I hope!), a better run with injuries to key players and natural development from our 19 -22 yo brigade. We are not a Club that can afford an extended run at the bottom to garner quality picks. Our attendances this year indicate this. If we don't rebound next year then as a club we are in real trouble. We need to look to Brisbane and Port as our models for the rebuild- not Hawthorn, they haven't proved anything yet other than thet they know how to cut a deal at trade time!

I'd have to say my satisfaction level with the process has been shaken somewhat with todays announcement in the Age that Peter Schwab would now be part of the interview panel. This is after it was claimed that there would be no replacement for Fagan. Sheedy was interviewed without Schwab present and then, hey presto! Schwab appears a few days later to sit in on the other four interviews. According to Caro he was appointed because it was felt that someone with coaching experience was required on the panel. So there you go, not only is one of Connolly's best mates interviewing him, so is his former boss at the Hawks! What happened to "We have a process and we are sticking to it". Either Schwab attends all interviews or he attends none-this smacks once again of amateur hour. I just don't get how this could be so hard. I work in an industry with a global budget in excess of $30 million per year. Our staff selection processes are pretty straight forward. Place an ad, an applicant responds in writing to criteria, a panel of three who know about the role shortlist and interview, somebody gets the job. One thing we don't do is change or add to the panel once the process starts. Very interesting indeed! No wonder our staff turnover is so high!