titan_uranus

We were a different side in 2018. TMac, Spargo, Harmes, Jetta, ANB, vandenBerg: we have plenty of players who have not recaptured their 2018 form. Brayshaw's another. Maybe it was the absence of Viney which was the catalyst, but it could equally be the opposition. As I said, we've got a stack of players who are not reaching their 2018 levels of output.

It's critical. When we're poor, and we see drop off in effort across the board, we see players not doing these things right, and it extends into not putting taller defenders on the mark for set shots and/or not having taller defenders on the goal line for set shots. They're all the sorts of things that the successful clubs are consistently better than us at.

@binman I don't want to turn this into another OMac vs Port analysis. I may have unfairly suggested that, had OMac done what Tomlinson did last night, you'd have defended him, whereas given it was Tomlinson you have attacked Tomlinson quite harshly. But your attack on Tomlinson felt pretty strong and I think isn't inscrutable. What we can agree on, I think, is this: whether it's Tomlinson, OMac or someone else, there is room for improvement in that third tall defender's role. This week vs Collingwood might not be the week to make a change, but we'll see soon enough.

Great thread. I feel as though I've noticed this year more teams leaving more players forward of the ball. Might be COVID/fitness related, but could equally be a tactical shift. Keep an extra player or two forward of the ball to ensure the opposition's zone has to stretch a little bit further. I wonder whether @deanox's observation from last night's game is part of that. It really does hinder our ability to appreciate the full extent of our improvement (or lack thereof) when we can only see what's shown on TV. @Axis of Bob makes a number of insightful comments about zone defence. This year, more than last, I've noticed our players when manning the mark move around to cut off the 45-degree inboard kick. We leave the boundary option open. Couple that with the increased chemistry between our defenders, and the improved confidence and form of May/Lever, and we start to see how and why defensive zones work. Risk taking is critical but when we're at our worst, we take poorly calculated risks at the wrong times: playing on when we shouldn't, going long when we shouldn't, etc.

My post wasn't designed to defend Tomlinson, it was an attempt to show how the "facts" can be spun in certain ways. IMO, your reading of that goal to Georgiadis where OMac leaves him to Lever is as favourable an interpretation of the situation, in OMac's favour, as possible. Fact? Maybe. Opinion? Certainly. To be clear, the first goal to Daw is as much Tomlinson's fault as Lever's, or anyone else's. Larkey's second was also substantially Tomlinson's problem, but again, I imagine you defending OMac in the same situation by saying we play a zone defence (see, eg, the Georgiadis goal) and arguing that there's nothing he can do from a quick kick inside 50 if no one's in front of Larkey to stop his lead. The first goal to Larkey, Tomlinson's free was pretty soft IMO, and I can't help but feel that if it was OMac, you'd have focused on the soft free and vandenBerg's subsequent stupidity to reduce the blame on OMac for that goal, but when it's someone else you focus on the free. Again: I disagreed with dropping OMac after the Port game and I'm not suggesting Tomlinson is doing any better in terms of one-on-ones or shutting down opponents.

I'm not sure we had the chance last night to see if Spargo had improved his strength (core or otherwise). He has agility, in the sense that he can (and does) move around the field well. His kicking clearly isn't at Daniel's level, nor does he have the pace of Pickett or McDonald-Tipungwuti. But I don't subscribe to the view that his height means that he has to be elite at something to make it. I saw enough last night, as well as in 2018, to believe that he has good enough kicking, good enough pace, and enough brains, to make it. I don't suggest it's a certainty though, just that it's a possibility. Our zone has been excellent, IMO, every week since the Carlton game with two exceptions: Richmond and Port. It's been a constant source of improvement, driven by May and Lever, and has held up well vs Geelong and Brisbane. Yes, part of it last night was North's poor kicking, but the poor kicking was often secondary to a poor choice they felt like they had to make because they couldn't find an option down the line or through our zone.

I agree with the general sentiment that this thread is a joke, and people who criticised the club for drafting Jackson or PIckett (or for the North pick swap) were wrong. But Demonland blows in the wind and if we lose to Collingwood, and/or to anyone else this year, and/or we don't make finals, the same arguments will be trotted back out.

You sound like old dee. Are you suggesting that if he was 7cm taller, with the otherwise precise same skill set, he'd be a better player? His strengths are in things for which his height is irrelevant: pressure and inside 50 link up play. He may not make it, but if he doesn't it won't be because of his height. I'm not entirely sure this was all on Goodwin. North tried, hard, to play keepings off in the first half. They were content to kick-mark a lot, rather than playing on and run/handballing. The lack of stoppages I think was also in part because North was failing to kill off many of our scoring chains which let us get inside 50 and generate shots on goal with ease.

Criminally underrated on here. Yes, he fumbles it. But his positioning on the wing and his exceptional gut-running mean he's routinely available to provide assistance in both defence and offence. He is so, so important. If he improves the fumbling and starts kicking goals, he becomes elite IMO.

I agree that Tomlinson looked better when he was higher up the ground. Our defence rests heavily on May and Lever working well together. I'm increasingly warming to the notion that the improvement we saw when OMac was brought back was coincidental, not causative, and that as May and Lever have gelled together and both lifted their games, we've done better. However, I think structurally we're better with a third defender playing the role OMac was playing. Right now, OMac's the best player on our list for that role. Tomlinson offers more in offence but that doesn't make sense for the role we're talking about. Smith is more athletic but again, that doesn't make sense for the role we're talking about (plus, unlike OMac and Tomlinson, Smith is untrustworthy). Maybe long-term Petty is this player. Until then, I still think structurally we never should have dropped OMac, but form-wise he wasn't offering much more than Tomlinson, and Tomlinson wasn't as bad as the goals in the first quarter suggested he might have been. If we persist with Tomlinson this week vs Collingwood, I will be very keen to see how the defence holds up in a significantly sterner test than Adelaide/North.

Possibly. West Coast can only have one more home game, having already had 8 to the end of Round 13. If they're going to be sent to a hub for their remaining 4 games (rather than flying out of Perth every week like in a regular season), I suspect they'll want their 4 away games to be in a block so they can play another hub. So that may mean their final home game (assuming the AFL gives them 9 home games, rather than 8 ), could be in Round 14 or Round 18 instead. Fremantle is the same, by the way, with 8 home games to the end of Round 13.

Before making any calls on Brayshaw vs Viney, I'd like to see a few things: Brayshaw's TOG and centre bounce attendance stats for last night compared to previous games (I don't know where to find these); and whether Brayshaw can perform like that against a stronger midfield than North's.

But that's the thing: these past two games, it has been consistent. And I'm not sure he's as important to defensive structure as you think. As to Smith, I'm wholly against players who are untrustworthy. Smith's untrustworthy. And suggesting he gave McKay a bath is absolutely ridiculous. McKay was dropping marks and having players kick over his head all game. Wasn't Smith's doing, it was Carlton's.

My initial impression of Tomlinson was pretty poor, too. But in the spirit of your work after the Port game, I thought I'd go back and have a look at those three first quarter goals. If it had been OMac, here's what I reckon you'd have said about them: The Daw one wasn't OMac's fault, it was Lever's for failing to kill the ball (he goes for a one-handed mark). The second one was barely a free kick and then vandenBerg gave away a dumb 50. So hardly OMac's fault there either. The third one there was no one in the hole in front, letting Larkey lead up. Zone defence, etc. etc. I'm not saying Tomlinson was good, but much like you spun OMac's game vs Port to suggest it was better than it was, I'm not convinced Tomlinson was as bad as you wish he was.

vandenBerg goes before Hannan IMO. Hannan doesn't turn it over every single kick. Again with the Tomlinson attack. I'm happy to drop him, but not for Joel Smith, who is no better a defender than Tomlinson. He showed that earlier this year. Some physical attributes doesn't change that.

The set shot misses are bad - all of them should have been goals. IIRC he missed one or two vs Brisbane as well. But so much else is going right for him. His leading, his leap at the ball, his confidence, even his follow up work when it hits the deck. It's all really important and all improving. He's a critical component to any future success we want to have. I'm confident the set shots will improve. He was a wonderful kick in 2018. I'm sure it's there to be regained.

6 - Oliver 5 - Petracca 4 - Lever 3 - Weideman 2 - Langdon 1 - Brayshaw

Pop the champagne: we're 9th on the ladder, the highest we've been since 2018!

Gawn and Viney are automatic inclusions if fit. IMO, Viney takes Jones' spot. That's a relatively like-for-like swap, although they'll want Viney in the middle more. Jones just isn't adding enough. It's sad, but it's reality. If Gawn's fit then TMac has to go. I didn't rate his performance anywhere near as highly as others on here. Yes, 7 tackles is a great figure, but he was tackling because he was dropping it, fumbling it and generally not being effective. Weideman is clearly our number 1 forward and on current form Jackson is better than TMac. We can't go in with three talls, nor should we, so unless Jackson needs a rest, TMac goes. If Lockhart's fit he deserves his spot back IMO, but Rivers doesn't deserve to be dropped. Harmes surely has to come under pressure here. So I'm thinking Gawn, Viney and Lockhart replace TMac, Jones and Harmes. TMac stays if Gawn isn't fit (and Gawn doesn't play if he's not fit enough. Last thing we can afford is to play Gawn too early and ruin the rest of the season). The alternative to Jones being dropped is vandenBerg IMO. Just makes way, way too many errors. His aggression is nice, but he's a liability with ball in hand right now, and I just don't think we can keep that in the side. I'm not sure OMac comes back this week or next given our opponents play mid/small forward lines. Tomlinson maybe gets a reprieve on that basis (able to be moved around the ground a bit).

OK everyone. Put the lid back on. North was absolutely abysmal tonight. D-grade tripe. We've won two games and absolutely done what we needed to do (win and build percentage), but our opposition both weeks was horrendous. Yes, we ran all over them in the last. They were down to two on the bench and had two players carrying corks. Yes, Brayshaw looked better today than previously. But, again, the opposition was shocking. I don't necessarily agree that this is definitive evidence that we're "better" with Gus in the middle instead of Viney. Now, with that out of the way, let's talk positives. Oliver and Petracca have led from the front the past fortnight. Something's clicked for Clarry and he's now bursting from stoppages and releasing others with long, forward handpasses. That, as much as anything, has made us more dynamic through the middle. Weideman's confidence is growing. He's commanding the ball and he's bringing it to ground when he can't mark it. If he'd kicked those early ones he missed (he should have kicked all of them), his confidence would have gone through the roof. Really impressive stuff, IMO. Jackson's coming along faster than I expected him to. His spread from stoppages is really valuable. He's so fast and agile for someone his size. Can't wait to get some more muscle onto his frame so he can compete in the ruck and in the air more. Pickett was great today IMO. He does so much right: creating space, releasing others, pressure. Spargo deserves all the credit he's getting: if he can maintain this form, he really adds to our forward line. Lever was fantastic again. Yes, he peeled off in the third and we conceded a goal as a result, but it was his willingness and ability to zone off and intercept that stopped North getting it past the middle of the ground from quarter time onwards. He and May are working better together by the week. And we did this all with passengers: Harmes, Jones, Sparrow and Melksham all struggled, and I personally thought TMac was way off it, his tackles notwithstanding. The season is set up for us now. Our next two games are against sides right around us on the ladder. If we're competing for a top 8 spot, it's against Collingwood and the Dogs. Great to pocket these two wins, and percentage, and hopefully some confidence, but the true test is yet to come.

They're fundamentals and we have flagged in those areas a bit today. The tackling is essential. He keeps fumbling it and giving it back to the Roos. IMO, he's been terrible.

They're at least one down (Bonar), possibly two (Anderson). They're also fatiguing, coming off a 4 day break, but so are we. Our fitness, and our 1 or 2 more players on the bench, should see us run the game out better. But we must keep our midfield effort up, cannot let them waltz from centre clearances, and must convert when going inside.

We're playing with 20. Jones and TMac are giving us absolute donuts. Barring a massive last quarter, neither should hold their spots. The Roos stink. We should be 6+ goals up. The only saving grace to not being 6+ goals up is that we hopefully won't slack off in the fourth and keep working hard. When our work rate is up, the ball spends most of the time in our forward half and North struggle to score. Loving Oliver and Petracca's work. And Spargo is doing well.

Melksham, Hannan, Spargo, Fritsch and Weideman have laid 4 tackles between them. Surprisingly, Melksham has 2 of them (Hannan and Spargo 1 each).

I was happy to back Tomlinson in after last week. The goals aren't really coming from breakdowns in the backline though. One was from a Tomlinson error (not following Daw), one was from a free kick and vandenBerg's stupid 50. As with all of our opponents this year, we put ourselves under pressure with turnovers and inefficiency in our forward half. Agree. Pleasing to see. He's the sort of player we need to come good. Can't rely on Pickett to do it all. Agree. He's either unfit, or past it, or both.