QueenC

I am not going to speculate about who should go and who should stay becuase in the end we all have our own pet perceptions of individual players importance, and our own personal bias when it comes to each of the boys that pull on the jumper or are trying to pull on the jumper each week. There are some players that I think nearly everyone here can agree on who should, or will, probably not be on the list in 2008, but that does not necessarily involve trading them, because at this stage in their careers and taking age into account they don't hold much value (and for this terminology alone I will go on the record and say that I truly hate trade week and the way we ie the fans treat it - it is not a game of cards). Which is why Gouga's top statement is the best I have read on this thread. If you read through all of this thread then we have collectively managed to get rid of nearly three quarters of the list in one fair swoop. The reality is that this is simply not going to happen. Because unless we get exactly what we want or need, or at least someone better than what we are offering, and continue to have enough players to cover the depth that will be tested if we start giving away players, then there is no point. It comes down to not trading or trading sake. To me, we trade only to get someone(s) that will absolutely make our list better and therefore perhaps get our Premiership aspirations even closer. We don't want to trade for players that will not improve the list, or trade our current player problems for a whole new set of problems that will not help in the long term. Of course who knows what a new coach will be able to get out of certain players on our list. That is the great unknown. But if we legitimately think we can make a deal to get say a Matthew Pavlich, then we absolutely go for it, offering whoever we think Fremantle will accept, doing this without completely decimating the list in the process. And this covers all but the very few "untouchables", that we possess. I guess the reality is though that players like Cameron Bruce, Brad Green and Travis Johnstone have the greater trade value than the more unpopular players that people around here just seem to want off the list (although they may add value to a certain deal), therefore if we want to get something good in return, like I said above, we are unfortunately going to have to part with one of these type players. Of course this is just my opinion !!!

Alright I'm in...... $30 if (when) he plays & $20 if (when) he kicks a goal in the game. Hope it helps!!!

And therefore should be a perfect example of how he can best be utilised for the benefit of the team...... Agreed !!!

Ironic really !!! Yep that unfortunately sums up this very sad situation pretty well..... Well done C84, but these are the ones that give me the heeby jeebies since they are regarded as the "team" things to do. They aren't necessarily spectacular and probably won't earn you a stat, but they are the things you do for your team mates, and the more you do them the better the team will perform, as a whole unit and not as individuals. Skill errors are annoying as hell but they can be worked on and improved (in theory) like any skill, but it is the failure to take care of your team mates and help them out - the "team" (for want of a better or at least another word) orientated things that make me want to cry because these show our mental application and attitude, to eachother and the club, on the field and to me it begins and ends with these. Just my opinion !!!

Nope Clint I don't think that he was....... And I have similar sentiments to Dan. On the one hand you applaud the passion and want (maybe the need) to keep going for the team and after last nights debacle that should absolutely be looked on as a positive, but it also showed a distinct lack of discipline or possibly even understanding of what was happening. However we can all understand the frustration he must have felt especially given he wasn't played at all in the first however many minutes. But in the end we had nothing more than a horribly frustrated and aggravated kid who didn't think he should be taken off the ground (and given the way he was playing he probably shouldn't have been - but that is another argument), but the questions Dan raised about what this incident may have shown up within the team are intriguing, and it will be interesting to see what happens from now on in.

Thanks bub, I didn't know he was playing for Sandy!!!

Was Whelan actually fit though? I mean he would have played if he could, right?

Is it fear, or intimidation, or a lack of knowledge, or what?

Well said Jaded..... sad but true !!!

Yours or his :D ?!!!

Ahh yes, the always important, but ever elusive crumber.......

While I agree that this year is shot to [censored] in respect to finals........ I believe that there is still a huge amount to play for, and learn, that will hopefully benefit us in the future.

For our continual amusment (remember if you don't laugh you will cry)....... Tigers break through in style A livid Melbourne coach Neale Daniher said he was embarrassed by his team's performance. "That was an embarrassing and insipid effort for the first half of the game, it was really embarrassing,'' Daniher said. "All credit to Richmond, they came and played some good footy, but I was disgusted with the way we played that first half and I told the players we've got to do something about it. "Okay, we won the second half, but at half-time it was 12 goals to two and that second quarter, what can you say? "From a coaching point of view it was embarrassing, nowhere near the standard required for AFL football. "That's probably one of the worst performances we've put in for a long, long time.'' Daniher said his players clearly went into the game not mentally switched on and every aspect of their play was poor. "They (Richmond) got far too much space, far too much of the ball and they didn't get any pressure from the Melbourne Football Club in the first half,'' he said.......

........and, unfortunately, in the first few weeks

I thought that maybe we had gotten over that in recent times, but we were appalling in the middle tonight.

I think there are a lot who already do !!!

I actually thought about that, without Miller who were we going to hold responsible to the loss..... Unfortunately there were way to many people putting their hands up for that particular position.

But shouldn't it have been? I mean Yze was brought in for Neitz, while Newton, at least in size, is a hell of a lot more comparable.

I thought of you tonight Rhino, in regards to this while watching the tragedy unfold !!!

That question makes my head hurt ....... But I don't think the inclusion of Newton would have automatically won us this game. There seem to be other, possibly greater, problems than his total lack of inclusion tonight.

........And there is a big leap from being a smart arse to having an attitude which could cause a unity problem. He would have been a far better bet tonight, and if it is a personality conflict that is keeping him out of the side, then that is just sad on all fronts.

Has backed up his mouth though !!!

And replace them with, what exactly? I don't disagree with you assessment but the reality is this is apparently, and according to learned minds around here, just about our best. To me skills are a problem but it was the attitude that completely sucked :angry:

Davey is not untouchable (very, very few, if any, are) but is highly unlikely.

Missing a couple?