QueenC

You beat me to it occo......

Nice to see some truth being stated about all of this. It is nice to see Gardner standing firm and not allowing us to be bullied. Congrats to Paul on a great retort.

I think you will find that part is alleged.

Honestly I have no bloody idea !!!

Well here is an actual home grown thought..... I am in Bennelong and he will more than likely win here. Whether you like it or not ne is actually pretty popular around here. And even if she is a "media" ring-in she has a tough task in front of her.

Becuase there is always a reason !!!

You're right D...... I have it by Hendrix so that is how I wrote it. But you are definitely right and my apologies for the mess up !!!

"Here is the Punishment" Giants of Science "There Must be Some Way Out of Here" Jimmy Hendrix "In My Time of Dying" Led Zeppelin "Bang Your Head" Quiet Riot "Road to Nowhere" Ozzy Osborne "Laugh, I Nearly Died" The Rolling Stones ......and with that I am done, for now!!!

Actually we do have a few places for him here in Sydney......

Playing in Queensland means they would have to go and find him and if they think he is worth the punt then good for them....... Swans give promising Orreal a run for his money "Orreal was drafted to the Swans under a clause that allows players who have not been registered to a club in the past three years to be selected outside of the normal draft. "I am new to it," Orreal said."

Not a particular challenge there !!!

Look, I get the impression that I am obviously the only one around here who thinks that Sydney can't handle two teams at present, but I am the one who lives here and as such probably have a slightly better handle on what this city will or could handle. Or at least better than those who don't live here. Do I think that the media will shun a second team? No, of course not, but after the initial blitz I think that it will fall back into the same level of exposure we have now. It could even split the time now given to the Swans, which is the only AFL news (other than any Cousins related drama) we really get on a regular basis. League, whether you like it or not, is still the dominant force up here and while a second team could conceivably gain some exposure it is a massive thing to do and shouldn't be done just to trump league on their own home turf, because despite the will (and there will be a way eventually) it just isn't' that simple. Having more to report on doesn't mean we will get more AFL on our screens, it won't automatically increase the level of media exposure we get, which is a whole other argument entirely and one that will not be solved until the broadcasters put the code first and ratings second. In other words, when hell freezes over. And if the AFL were serious about selling their code to doubting Sydney-siders there are easier and less intrusive and over-wrought ways to gain exposure in the current and immediate market than to shove a Melbourne-based side into Western Sydney. Besides exposure isn't the only issue, it is just the one I could think of.

Double the exposure? Good grief no!!! They can't get TV exposure right for the one team, without ignoring the rest of the comp, what makes you think they can handle two?

And the Tigers have delisted Carl Peterson and Cameron Howat....... Clubs show players door

I don't think they (the AFL) are doing anything particularly wrong bub........ Its just that what they are doing, like the junior development (Auskick) programs which will hopefully spurn a new bigger and more loyal generation of AFL supporters, will take some time to take hold, particularly out west where most of this funding is being channelled and where league is still in the blood. This is not an AFL city and that should not be forgotten in all this talk of expansion, and while is is becoming increasingly popular it is still viewed by a hell of a lot of people as an invasion from down south. My issue is that this increased popularity within the city as a whole comes not from the league but from the Swans. It they can maintain success then the code will remain successful in Sydney, if not then it will flounder. A potential second team will suffer the same fate, even worse in my opinion because it will be in a much tougher region and will not have nearly the same benefits as the Swans have now. People will follow it without supporting it. The Razorbacks in the NBL suffered a similar problem when they entered the comp and where thrown up against a successful and popular Kings outfit. But to me the code itself needs to be sold better, and a marketing or development plan is not something I have at my fingertips, to make the code itself stronger within the Sydney demographic, and not completely reliant on the success or selling ability of the Swans. The press forgets that there are other teams or other teams supporters up here and the broadcast of games not involving the Swans into the Sydney market is unbelievably appalling. This will need to change. It is a simple truth that kids aren't going to want to play something they can't see and right now we don't see squat. And that in turn doesn't particularly help with the promotion of the game in school programs, where they are trying to establish young support. League is here all the time and is easy for a kid to fall for. There are a lot of factors that will need to fall into place before the AFL can move or create another team in Sydney, these are just a few off the top of my head. And they are very basic. I am not saying it will never happen. It most likely will. What I am saying is that right now it seems like an unsustainable proposition.

Well, if they want another team in my fair city then they are going to have to do a hell of a lot more promotion to get the game itself in a better position. When that happens then maybe the city will be ready but in my opinion we are not ready now, despite what the AFL demands of it. So I guess we will all have to wait and cross that (Harbour) bridge when we get to it !!!

I agree the AFL is the biggest and most successful national competition we have........ But just because they, or we or you, or anyone says that they want a team somewhere doesn't automatically mean that that somewhere is ready to sustain a team.

League have set massive membership and attendance records this year. They are not faltering. Union is the one under siege, but the Waratahs still got reasonable attendances this season despite finishing second last. Just out of curiosity would a second league team in Melbourne work?

Maybe, but it is more likely that they leave the code altogether, and go and watch one of the other footy codes that have a fair hold on this city. If a second team was to play up here the SCG would be massively off limits. They would either have to squeeze them into Hombush, which will not be easy given two or three league teams play off there or build or renovate their own stadium.

I understand your argument and I have no doubt that in the future we will have a second team....... That being said it has taken fifteen of those twenty years, multiple finals appearances and a Premiership for the Swans to be anything more than a sideline up here, and the unfortunate reality for the bulk of the population they still are, that is the way it is no matter how much you seem to think otherwise. Remembering that they have been bankrupt on a number of occasions, propped up by the league, and have had relatively no support for most of that time. The Swans need to succeed more than most to keep a hold of the market they have fought long and hard to get due to the other factors (other more powerful codes which most people are happy to ignore) that I'm sorry to point out don't really come into play in Melbourne. And while success will breed support for all teams, in the very fickle market with a foreign code it is paramount up here. And the ratings prove that up here people jump off faster than a speeding bullet. And to make any kinds of inroads into the Western suburbs which is where the second team will I assume be put, will be a huge gamble as they are walking straight into the heartland and breeding ground of the rugby league and they will not concede control of this part of their world without one hell of a fight. It is great to see the odd set of four goal posts up west of Parramatta, but the population is not automatically taking to the game like ducks to water, no matter how much the AFL or anyone else says that they should or will or can or anything else. It is not that simple as saying "oh they have the population they get a team". Do we need another team to take the game to the kids? Maybe, but I genuinely believe that the Auskick and the junior development programs that have only recently been set up need to be in place for a hell of a lot longer before a second team is thrust on a city that frankly may not be able or willing to take it. Yet. I guess what I am saying is that the game as a whole, outside of the Swans, will need to become bigger, better, and more popular up here before a second team could get the support both financially (independent of the AFL) and membership wise that would be required for sustained longevity. The news (TV and print) here barely even reports on anything in AFL outside of the Swans, and stuff like this would have to change dramatically for any kind of expansion to succeed. Will it happen? Eventually probably, but this process of expansion has only just begun here and it won't be happening any time soon. And hating the Swans is not a good enough reason, because it would be more along the lines of hating the code, or already supporting another team. Just my opinion !!!

And that certainly won't be as esay as some here seem to think it will......... It is one thing to say that Sydney can and should be able to support two (or three) teams, and population wise the city absolutely can, but what you need to factor in is that AFL while wanting to build its power base up here is not necessarily;y succeeding and it certainly isn't happening on the time frame that they wanted. The Swans are well supported now, but when they drop off, and they will, the unfortunate reality is that most of their fans will go as well. You need to remember that there are three codes of football competing for the same supporter base. Two of those are vastly more powerful (even with the rugby crisis as it is) and bigger than the AFL, and this will not be changing any time soon, no matter how much money you throw at the Western suburbs. I simply can't see Sydney being able to support a second team in the near future.

Stephen Doyle from the Swans has retired....... Doyle forced to call it quits

I'm shocked that this story may not be the total truth, really shocked........ Ben has been and probably is still a self destructive young man with a huge problem, of his own making, that he must get himself out of if he is to actually survive into his 30's, but the press will always want to print the worst no matter what because that is good copy and for he Ben has been and will continue to be great copy. I read that piece and really couldn't understand why an organisation that would pride itself on its upholding of its clients privacy would be openly talking to a member of the press about the possible or unknown whereabouts of someone who they are meant to be treating, and that still stands even if he isn't actually there. If he has gone AWOL then he is a fool, no doubt, but I am certainly not going to treat that article like gospel either.

Cheers Diablo and Coxy...... Your "hard work" is greatly appreciated :D !!!

I agree, but as far as finals and potential Premierships are concerned.......how long is a peice of string ?!!!