stevethemanjordan

This is the theme posters seem to stick with and it seriously confuses me. It's as if ya'll assume that if he was to leave, we'd pick up nobody in the off-season as a replacement. Why is that assumed on here? Obviously if he left us and we didn't bring in a like-for-like defender then yes it may be problematic next year. Tom McDonald isn't Alex Rance or Michael Hurley. He is a young defender who possesses some great qualities but who also is limited in areas of his game. My preference is for Tom to stay but for us to also bring another key defensive player in. However, I most certainly won't think that it's the end of the world if he decides to go unlike some on here who thinks it'll push as back 'X amount of years'. That is complete nonsense.

Again, not pot-shotting the bloke, but T-Mac or no T-Mac I'm not going to be bothered. Out of any key position on the ground, it's his that is most expendable providing we are to bring in a direct replacement. Hogan and Gawn are untouchable because they're clearly streets ahead of T-Mac in regards to how well they play their positions. T-Mac has major flaws and therefore can be replaced more easily with a like-for-like player and one that we wouldn't necessarily have to pay huge amounts for. Jaded and co. have banged on about the 'importance' of keeping players like Frawley and T-Mac, refusing to see or believe that they have major flaws in their game and are therefore easily replaceable players. I don't buy in to the fact that Tom McDonald is 'elite' in any facet yet. He has patches of really good form and he also has patches of shocking form. You don't need to be an amazing player to be able to kill a contest in the air. There are so many key defenders out there who can provide that. All I know is that a combination of two McDonald's and Frost going forward is not going to cut it. Especially come finals time where there is a frenzy of pressure at every second of the game. They all make absurd errors at times where there is no pressure. Imagine them kicking out of our defensive-half during a high pressure final. It's a nightmare in my head.

I expect/hope he plays out of the goal square and as long as we can give him a few opportunities to jump at the ball, I think we'll see some influence. Agree with others in that if he isn't given opportunities to jump at it, he won't have much of an influence as he lacks the running power/speed and core strength that seasononed players have. We need our mids to use the ball smartly when going forward. Hopefully Hogan gets up for it and Dawes gets demoted. Weeds deep with Hogan at CHF. Watts alternating from a pocket to a high half forward.

Quality thread.

Landing Hibberd and a Full back with runs on the board would be huge for us and should settle the backline group nicely. Oscar McDonald and Frost may well turn out to be solid enough KP defenders but at this point in their careers, they're not going to give us the lift we need. They're not ready now and are only being played because Garland and Dunn are not. Not because they're the bees knees.

I take little notice of either side of the coin and I prefer to watch with my own eyes as they're all I need to decide whether or not someone has sound technique or is a good decision maker. DE is for the blind and stat lovers. I was making the point that Saty has literally used that stat in isolation as 'evidence' to support his view of a player like McKenzie being able to kick.

Solid response. Anyone who watched James before he was drafted would know that he was rated one of the best kicks in the draft. Clearly you didn't watch nearly enough of him to know or see that. At Casey it was on display. He wasn't able to showcase his best attribute at senior level. For various reasons. End of.

He was an elite kick. But without confidence, even the best kickers can crumble. So it was completely to do with development.

Would love him. But there is no way we'd be able to get him.

Don't tell Sat-man DE is rubbish. It's the only evidence he has to backup his claims that McKenzie can kick.

You know as well as anyone how many other problem areas the club faced during that time. The list was an absolute shambles. Can you imagine someone like Hunt debuting during that time? He would have been played during his first or second year and would have been torched from the get-go. Worlds apart. There is no debating that our side majorly lack quality ball users. It's indisputable.

Good post. I agree that we have too many players who gravitate to the contest purely out of instinct. I've banged on about the imbalance we have on our list in regards to inside/outside players. We have too many who are purely insiders with a weakness in running power and kicking skills. That will hopefully change over the course of the coming years but the theme at our club from day one has been to build our list up of tough ball winning machines. It's certainly what Roos loves and yes we know Grand Finals are mainly scrappy contested games of footy. I'm just baffled that the Dogs and GWS are the only teams that have seemingly followed Hawthorn's lead in regards to injecting players with elite kicking skills and running power from all over the field but namely from the half backline through to the half forward line. The dogs and GWS, like Hawthorn, have a really great balance of inside/outside players through their midfield too. The way we are building is certainly sustainable, but there are still major weakness areas that I'm hoping Goodwin will fix.

Agree and it's hard to know how many of those guys will go... Depends on who is interested in coming to us I suppose and who the club thinks is a realistic target. We're at the stage now where we need some really consistent and experienced guys to fill holes and if we do it in a smart way like GWS have done, we'll be a chance for the 8 next year. I'm hoping this off-season will be the game-changer for us.

Good point. Even so, if you have smart users off the half backline and through the middle of the ground you'd hope those repeat entries would turn into shots on goal. It's just another area I know we need to improve in.

66-37 inside 50's our way. When you lose a game with in an inside 50 count like that, it's nothing but inefficiency, inaccuracy and poor decision making going forward. If you look at some of their late goals and quick entries, you'll see it was on the back of a last second turnover or miskick from one of our players. They made us pay as good teams should. I was proud of the effort, but as everyone has said. We lost the game. They didn't win it.

Our efficiency going inside 50 certainly didn't help though. Need some dangerous kickers to be hitting those inside 50's. That and some players need to smarten up.

I hear what you're saying. But what we're missing back there most are guys that are really experienced in playing as a defender and Tomlinson has never been that.

I agree that we need a big-bodied KP defender Stu. I like Marchbank a lot and would like him but I can't see us getting him given we have O-Mac and Frost as young developing KP defenders. I think the club will either hope that Dunn can learn from his time at VFL, or we'll go after someone like Brown/Mackenzie. (Someone with experience and a big body).

They came as further depth and from strong clubs. But I agree the 'Roos types' gets thrown around too much. We're a completely different list to Sydney and therefore the 'Roos types' doesn't quite apply when you're building with a list of kids. The 'Roos types' are the role players once the majority of a list is established.

I hope we get him simply because of the enjoyment I'll get out of seeing this joint go into complete meldown. Just like it did when we landed Melksham. I think the funniest part in all of this is that Tyrone as a player typifies the types of players we've had for years and years. The gap between their best and worst is far too great.

We are a contested ball winning side with limited smarts, foot-skills and running power through the middle of the ground. There's no doubt the conditions helped us and had it been dry, the scoreline would have been different. Happy with the effort though and just happy to see more games from our younger guys. The list will change and still needs to given how heavily contested we are. When we start winning at Etihad, we'll know we've addressed this.

I'm really over these group-thought, run-of- the-mill lines that seem to circulate around demonland and have done for years. The same used to be said about Frawley, Garland and Dunn (until they were dropped) etc etc... Firstly, as a side, we've had to rely on Tom McDonald more than we would like simply because of the lack of experience and lack of cohesion we've witnessed in our backline this year. Frost (35 games), O-Mac (12), Hunt (14), Wagner (13), White (3), Salem (29), Michie (21). These are the players who have played as part of our back six this year with Frost, O-Mac, Hunt and Wagner being the regulars. It goes completely against the philosophy that Roos' continually spins in regards to how important it is to develop young players at reserves level. The fact that we have Dunn, Garland and Grimes combining for a total of 406 AFL games experience sitting in the VFL, all of whom have played the majority of their career as defenders is the reason that we find Tom McDonald to be an important player for us at this present time. We have the most unsettled and inexperienced back six in the entire competition. You've completely disregarded all of that by stating outlandish one-liners, the most ridiculous being: 'If we lose him, we will probably go back 2-3 years minimum in our tilt at a premiership'. Premiership sides are made up of disciplined, experienced and functioning sides who both attack and defend really well as a collective and premierships are almost always won on the back of the talent, strength and depth of the midfield brigade. I'm also fully aware that there have been elite champion key position backmen in premiership sides over the years just as there have also been 'no-fuss', combative and limited big bodied defenders playing in those key position roles. It is complete tripe to suggest KPD don't grow on trees. The Dog's picked up Adams from the WAFL last year, Freo picked up Collins from the VFL. Sydney have Richards, Grundy and Laidler as their three talls. That's two trade ins and a former forward turned defender. The power traded for Hombsch from GWS, GWS have a former Brisbane geriatric. They're everywhere. Those teams however have incredible support and experience around those positions which simplifies the role of the key defender. McDonald is doing an honourable job and is in my view, doing more than he would normally be required to do given the circumstance. What we are missing is a genuine big body who can play on the heavy weights which is why I think bringing in a Brown or Mackenzie type would help our cause. (Providing Dunn never gets back to his best). If Tom leaves because he feels he deserves more money, it won't concern me at all providing the club had a plan in place. You're missing the bigger picture in all of this. The addition of Melksham and the potential addition of Hibberd next year will go a long way to settling our defensive setup. Both have over 100 games experience with Hibberd being able to play multiple roles. The shape of our list is still changing and needs to change. For the better. Tom McDonald's position is an important one, but one that can always be replaced if he left.

For 'mine', also.

Prestia or O'meara. We'll land one.

Truth.