fr_ap

Forest for the trees people....at current rate AFL will not involve body contact or even possessing the ball in 15 years. Goody a master coach, always ahead of his time

Whilst the players do look confused, I don't think we should conflate a chronic, pervasive lack of confidence with a bad game plan. I don't know what the new game plan is....I'm not sure we've seen it....perhaps glimpses in round 1 (but it was wet). Those that go to training may know what it is but the rest of us can't possibly judge it at this point. One thing we do know for sure is that no game plan would be successful when players can't make simple passes, fumble the ball at ground level, don't work for each other and show little effort off the ball. These are the issues we currently face and they are rooted in no confidence, no joy, no connection. I think between losing at the death and capitulating to north Melbourne, they're shellshocked. Off the back of such a tumultuous 18 months, it doesn't take much to wedge open a crack in a fragile group. That's what's happened ...and whilst we might think the suns at home was a good chance to respond ..it's almost perversely worse ..we couldn't do it again could we? Then it began....and kept going....and the lack of confidence spiralled even deeper. Causing more fumbling, less talk, less joy. Carlton are in a similar albeit perhaps less dramatic place. They are clearly better than Richmond but being scared to lose in that 2nd half was like a virus that infected all of them. They're still struggling to shake it. Bad leadership perhaps, but I think what we are seeing is a group that has not healed from last year. Perhaps they never will. Honestly we had to take the chance to start fresh. I love Trac and clarry but our problems are clearly starting at centre bounce. They once played for each other...they certainly don't anymore. The dogs did the right thing moving on Baz ..even if they got unders. He's now someone else's distraction (a stronger club, that can handle it) whilst the dogs are playing team oriented footy with some lesser lights and newbies feeling ownership and purpose. What I hate is we are desperate. We push them out, then beg them to stay. We rush back injured starts. We play the first rounders right away. We throw the skipper under the bus looking for excuses. We throw two VFL boys in the hope they are diamonds in the rough. For a good few years there ...we took our time. Petty was given a long apprenticeship in the VFL. Trac came back from his knee thru the vfl. Etc. etc....we played long term games. Weak clubs look for short term solutions. And we are a very weak club.

I called the culture problem before a ball had been kicked in 23. Got roundly smashed here by everyone.

Yep We had serious swagger and teams were often intimidated by our physicality. We're now bruise free. Not just the names above...but Lachie Hunter. Bad character - ordinary player. Who knows what impact he had on the group or some individuals. Jayden Hunt was another good character. We shipped them all out.

I miss the good people we had around our club. Gus, Nibbler, Hibberd, Jetta. Bedford, Jordon. All had flaws but guys you could rely on to crack in. Honestly the types Tim Lamb brought in....billings...schache...Grundy...mcadam....we moved away from guys that could win contests...to guys that just have no physicality. Or weak mentality. Or weak bodies. You couldn't have managed a list more poorly if you tried. We were such a brutal team at the peak. Sigh

It's all caught up with him so quickly. It's one thing to say his kicking is poor...it always has been. But all of a sudden he's a liability in the context and at ground level, can't create any separation around scrimmage and can't lay a tackle. Huge part of our clearance problems at the moment. Needs to be dropped. Give Langford his time on ball

Yeah - after that showing last week - the one thing that speaks volumes is the clear lack of spirit today from the opening bounce. You don't have a to be a great team - but if you can't show up with energy when a response was required, at a home game against a minnow who has struggled here and had no fanbase to contend with....it speaks. Very loudly. He has lost the group. Unfortunately there is now little quality around him. We couldn't attract a credentialed midfield or backline coach. We're going to be down a long time I think. Should have cut our losses when Oliver and Trac wanted out - and started again with the bounty. Ironically it might have been the best thing for Simon to buy him time. This era is finished - the leaders are finished. Should have transitioned to Yze when we had the chance. Players loved him and you could see the Richmond kids play for him in rd1. They'll lose most games (our rival for the spoon) but at least they showed up with spirit. Entire team bar Aidan Johnson (who is a long long way away from being AFL standard) was not interested today. Unacceptable

Never seen them so disinterested under goodwin. Think he's lost them.

Seriously why are you just saying this now? What have you been watching for the last 3 years???? Or for their entire careers?

Some very interesting early observations on Mitchell and the Hawks in this thread.

Very well said. I have no idea really if Goodwin is part of the problem or not. But what I can judge with my own eyes is that we don't have the team the modern game requires, and we haven't since they introduced the stand rule and 666.

As did Lamb. The flag was Peter Jackson, Mahoney, Todd Viney, Taylor and Roos (for inspiring Gawn). And Burgess. As is often the way, most of them weren't there to enjoy it and others have been taking credit ever since.

By the way - I am rapidly losing all faith in Lever. He is a poor 1v1 defender, a poor kick, average decision maker and often found out at ground level. You can't play an intercepter these days that offers nothing going forward. He's a big part of our problems in d50 - we are beyond pathetic when the ball hits the deck. He can't move, Tom Mac can't move, Petty is too big, Salem is old and today Rivers was a total headless chook. Bowey is the only small ground level running player down there and he has clear deficiencies defensively. Mcvee covers a lot of errors. As Hibberd did before him, and Jetta before him. We clearly lack that player when he isn't there (Alarming) There was a point in the last when Lever was caught upfield and was genuinely more interested in telling off Howes' positioning than be was getting back and defending his man. He was literally gesticulating towards Howes whilst the north guy was kicking the ball over his head. He ended up giving the free kick away as he couldn't turn to look at the ball, as he totally lacks athleticism. Just the wrong type of leadership. And a pretty average player to boot.

There is a point here that often gets lost. To the person asking what the problem is with our two late 20s superstars taking the huge $$s...the problem is them. I loved the flag and it wasn't a fluke. But do I think we would have won if we weren't forced to live in a bubble for half the year? No, I don't. I think our best players are easily distracted, often focused on the wrong things, naturally selfish and in their own heads. In a world where everything else stopped - this was ideal, as all those distractions fell away and the wandering focus was directed into one thing - the '21 outcome. Since they both reached their peak, our successes have always rested on trac and Clarry's shoulders. Gawn has been incredible, Viney a warrior and some good players have passed through around them. But it's always been down to Trac and Clarry. If they aren't right, we aren't right.

He's an ok young key forward, but he has always struggled to create separation. Our kicking to him a part of that but he doesn't know how or when to lead. Doesn't quite have the burst the best forwards have, and beyond that doesn't kick goals enough ways to be a 50-60 goal a year forward. If he isn't getting set shots, he's not in the play. Has time, but needs to start improving.

Honestly, I don't mind it. Nice and early in the season to have this kind of wake up call. Those of us here who can see the forest for the trees have known this was coming for a while. We have been treading water as a club for two years. We've had some leadership turnover, but not enough. We were unable to attract any top up talent following a flag, and our stars and leaders are questionable characters with questionable motivations. Those that are on the level (Lever) just aren't very good players. We lost our best leader and best human in the offseason (ANB). We've been unable to attract any solid 50-150 game players that have genuine scope to become A graders, despite having a crack at plenty. I have said it before - but in the period of time Tim Lamb has oversees this list, it gets worse every year. I mean honestly...what does it say when Henderson is drafted one week and playing AFL the next? I like him but When Spargo has barely run for 2 years and then gets a call up right away? He has systematically undone a masterful list build overseen by Josh Mahoney and Todd Viney. I yearn for the days when you could take our FD at its word. I think Richardson is a perennial loser (sorry) and in Jones we have first timer, even if he is a beloved club legend, coaching the most important part of the team. Either this sparks some change, or it starts a year of significant failure. We needed it either way.

Agree it's been an issue for far too long. But the absolutely lunacy and idiocy of the kicking i50 is just as bad an issue, if not worse. From seasoned, best and fairest winning midfielders. One in particular today.

It's a good comparison. We'd be ecstatic if he could be as good as Kelly, even with his slight contest flaws

Yeah I'm just projecting. Interested in what he could become. Plenty of time and was a super game 1

And you arent reading. I didn't say he couldn't take a hit. We all saw him back into packs. I'm not questioning his courage or application - but the one area of his game I have a question mark is whether he can win physical 1v1 battles. Langdon wins more than his fair share for his size and it's a critical, underrated part of wingplay and also a key determinant of whether he has midfield scope at AFL level. Now he's a kid and he's played one game - and for 3 years will likely lose more 1v1s than he wins until he's physically developed. So as I said, time will tell.

What? Ive never expressed an interest in Travaglia. I said Lalor would be far and away the best player in this draft and everyone now knows why. Knew XL would bring composure and good outside running. Hadn't appreciated how good his footy IQ was. Still hold concerns for the contested part of his game....wasnt hugely tested on it on the weekend as stayed very outside. Not talking about his backing into packs btw...moreso his ability to win a hard ball or win 1v1s preventing him having the scope to be a mid rather than a winger. Time will tell - but was a fantastic debut.

If his role was a defensive one then that's even more damning....

Also gave 2 goals away in the first half through lazy kicks...going backwards no less

Can we be serious - it may have been a set play but they botched the kick out. It was a scramble on the deck and Darcy Jones handballed blind into the corridor. It was a throw of the dice. If it was anyone other than the jet Finn Callaghan, they likely wouldn't have gotten there before Henderson. From there they had the ball free in the corridor and lots of free players had cheated forward. If Henderson got there first we would have had free players in our f50. A bit of luck their way, but really Callaghan won the game

Most of their scores came from Finn Callaghan breaking lines. Just arches his back and away they go, zone broken. Phenomenal player. He was the reason for the last score as well. XL went well and I was particularly pleased with Bowey, as I have been very critical of him over the summer. Langford could barely move despite playing only one quarter. Especially when defending. He still found the ball ok but his stuff without the ball needs a lot of work. Fritsch played a pretty pathetic game. JVR couldn't take a grab either. But they played on Taylor and Buckley who are nigh unbeatable as a duo. Missed a few shots but so did they. Either result would have been fair...they happened to get in front at the right time.