Chris

I didn't say since the war dance, I said since he made a stand for the Indigenous people. Many comments he made in 2013, including against the young girl. Lines up nicely with your timeline. Why not before then, he has been diving for as long as I can remember.

Made the call on four remaining Vic teams as I think the AFL would not want to waste the investment made interstate and the potential growth. This of course ignores the damage to the heartland of the sport, but hey, it isn't like they have taken any notice of that over the last 20 years or so!

Why did no one boo him before? If it isn't about that then why did it start then? people can never actually answer this question, they just say so and so doesn't get boo'd so it isn't racist, or it is because he dives, or it is because he picked on a young girl. none of this answers why it only started when he made a stance for Indigenous rights. Maybe, just maybe, it is because he doesn't stay quiet and tow the line the white fellas want him too.

Not at all. As you say, it is part of free speech, many people think it means they can say what they like, when they like, and there will be no consequences.

If this wasn't the case then he would have been being boo'd for a lot longer than he has. Strange how it all started when he made remarks about Indigenous rights isn't it!

Comes with responsibility though OD. You can say any racist thing you like, but I have the right to call you out on it. Don't get upset if I do.

What are you booing him for? It only started after he stood up for the Indigenous people of the country, no one boo'd him before hand so the only conclusion is that you are booing because he stands up for Indigenous rights. Wouldn't that be a little racist?

A few high priority picks certainly helped things along, even if they got them from sending all the good player away for 'surgery' to ensure the lost enough games. Pies did the same thing, no one ever questions either of them, or the flags they won as a result of their tanking.

Remove six VIC clubs is the answer that would be found. That would be the Dees, Saints, Dogs, and Roos for sure, but which two of the Cats, Tigers, Pies, Hawks, Blues, and Dons would go? My money would be on Blues and Cats.

Part of running business is repairing these things though. they are not separate, they are one and the same, and any good business manager will identify that and get to work to do so.

I agree with what you are saying and think we need all of that. I just put it in a business context. For the club to be successful as a business we need to provide those things because if we don't then the supporters lose that connection and the club loses money and doesn't survive. The AFL are slowly waking up to this and the club is now in hands I trust to start bringing these things back. It is the same with people selling things, if you look at cars people have a emotional irrational connection to certain brands. The brand will do what ever they can to keep that connection, all for the bottom line. It is a step to take to realise that you are a customer but it is the way it is and needs to be for the club to survive.

So it is a business that needs to look after its customers (us) in order to be successful and we both agree that the club in the past and the AFL haven't been very good at that. PJ is getting better at this but the supporters should not be running the club and should have no more say than your average shareholder in how the club is run. It is still about the bottom line and everything you have listed affects that and if managed well keeps everyone happy and makes the club survive. Not only is an AFL club a business it is a big business with a turn over of many millions.

I am not narrowing it down to demographics, what I said was "So that would be the private school TYPE boys club culture" note the 'type'. Drawing parallels to what it was like, not what it was, although there is some of the private school boys club thrown in for good measure. It all points to the attitude, from someone who has seen how the private school boys club works from all angles I can say that it is like what was going on at the club, even down to the example you portray. I also disagree with you about the club not being a business, that is what it is and what it must be to survive. The key is to put the right people in because they know what they are doing, not because they know the right people. PJ fits that bill as he has run a successful club as a business before.

We have very different memories of Davey then

So that would be the private school type boys club culture I have been speaking about then. Thanks for clearing it up.

You are right on the time frame and I changed my post to reflect that. Don't necessarily agree with the arrogance tag, more entitled and definitely a boys club through and through. Comes back to the private school boys running the place, they think it is like business where who you know is as important, if not more so, than what you know. That doesn't work in football and you get found out, as we have been many times. I think the new regime are going a long way to removing this crap. On another note, I wouldn't lump Davey in with the bunch of footballers who wouldn't tackle or chase, he is credited with inventing the modern version of forward pressure by doing those exact things.

The boys club at work!

And that culture is one of entitlement which has in the past been lead from the top, hence I say it is off field although it probably started before I stated. It was not however lead by the players, or the coaches, it came from the boys club on the board.

Yes, the problem is driven by off field issues. this started when we sacked a coach who was doing ok (Norm smith or the rev, take your pick), only to then sack his replacement, who was also doing OK. We had a management team in place that bought in tanking, could make money to save themselves, was very much stuck in a boys club mode where everything will be OK in the end, and they ran us into the ground. They also oversaw the sacking of all our experienced players, including our captain. Something we rue to this day as what we have clearly lacked is experience guiding the players, St Kilda have it, the dogs have it, and look at how they are going! Going with youth is only good to a point, you need the wise heads around. Look at the difference between GC and GWS for more evidence. Our players lack knowledge of what is required and have had their confidence smashed as a result. Add to this a development team that has to be the worst in AFL history, and a recruiting department who were OK, but not great, and made to look worse by appalling development and things go from bad to worse. Then Jimmy came in a cleared the debt (only to go into debt sacking more people) but he was still bound by the boys club, but to a lesser degree than others. Then the board made their worst mistake, hiring Neeld. Neeld may well have actually been an OK coach, he was not good at reading a groups of players and managing them, he lost them before he coached his first game, and if not then then he certainly did after it. The less said about this period the better, suffice to say we continued going backwards from when the rev was sacked. Then came the sacking of Neeld, to me this is the beginning of the resurrection. From around this point we have a CEO in place who knows what he is doing, we have a recruiting team in place who are doing a great job, we have a development team in place who so far seem to be doing very well with the likes of Brayshaw, Salem, Watts (the fact he needs development is an indictment of how bad the previous development team were), and others, we have a coaching panel in place that is stable (although many on here seem to be thinking Roos should go, massive mistake purely due tot he instability it would create) with the players knowing who is coaching for the next 4.5 years. Yes we are bad, but we are getting better, we are just coming from miles back due to the reasons listed above. The biggest of which was removing the experienced players, not only have we missed the experience but we have had to use draft picks and trades to bring other experience back in to the team! How about for once in this clubs history we actually stick out a plan to the end instead of jumping off half way because it doesn't look good, and then having to start all over again!

All 22 players - sack them now! Did I get that right, it seems to be how this site works.

Good thing I don't go for Port, would have blown a few valves at the umpires tonight!

For the long term health of the comp the broadcasters need less say. The health of all teams is paramount to the survival of the league, the broadcasters don't care about that one iota.

Yes you did. Otherwise you wouldn't have bought up our performance in 01. If making a flag doesn't get you a good run then what does, 2 years in finals, 3,4?

Glad someone else can see it!

Missed the point by a mile there SWYL. The post was in reply to a post saying that if we win we will get a good draw and highly visible time slots. we made the granny in 2000 yet in 2001 we played mainly on Sundays. Kind of destroys the argument and shows what reality brings. Our performance in 2001 is irrelevant, I am not sure what I was making excuses for, and maybe, just maybe, read the post that someone is replying to before going of on an illogical rant.