Chris

Nope, don't have access. I guess it is a pile of horse s@$t. Any chance of a summation of the delusion?

In short, access to the market is not equitable and as such the clubs who have always had more access, get more support, money, and power, and then use that to get more access. This is fine in a capitalist society and people use capitalism as the defence for this behaviour. The point they miss is that the AFL is competing on a capitalist basis against other sports. If we compete within then the AFL dies.

I am happy to play them there as well, although I do have issues with rules for some and not others. Why for instance do Collingwood or Geelong get the option of playing a Geelong home game at the G so Geelong can earn more money? Guess I answered that in the question, unfortunately the AFL has let the integrity of the league be overruled by the almighty dollar. Sorry to those of you who fell off your seats laughing while reading the words integrity and AFL in the same sentence.

Which is what I was pointing out when I originally wrote "The power brokers have spoken and it is how it is. Who is the chairman of the commission linked to again? Oh that's right, the cellar dweller with 7 Friday night games! Says it all really." You have agreed with the point I was making.

So they just made the finals in the last two years, how do you account for the preceding decade of crapness and still not playing in Geelong?

Don't be so sure about that. When was the last time Carlton played there, early or mid 90's I think it was. They have been crap, with average crowds for more than a decade and still don't play there. What makes you think it will change? The power brokers have spoken and it is how it is. Who is the chairman of the commission linked to again? Oh that's right, the cellar dweller with 7 Friday night games! Says it all really

Very true, unfortunately.

Then in reality you aren't taking a pick for Howe, you are taking another player for Howe with some picks in the middle. Very different proposition to taking a draft pick, which is what was proposed.

You said you would take a top 20 pick and run if it was offered. Hence my comment that you would throw away a known entity for an untried kid drafted in the teens in a shallow draft. That is what you proposed.

Then it all comes down to what we get for the pick. We either stay with a third tall option who has versatility as a swing man, which we have in Howe, and wont improve unless we throw something else in with the pick, or we lose that and go for a different type of player. I would stay with Howe, it isn't like we have many of his type for depth. Watts, and Garlo would be the other two, and Garlo only at a stretch.

Should probably be percentage of difference in UP's that is used. This would remove the variability caused by weather or congested games etc that you have tried to remove with only looking at differentials, not just raw numbers. Having 20 more UP's means very little if it is 500 to 520, where as 20 difference is huge if it is 30 to 50. Expressed as a percentage gives a far more accurate measure of the true difference.

So you would throw away a known reasonable entity (I think he is more than reasonable, but that is where you seem to put him), for a top 20 pick so we can get an unknown kid in the top 20 of what is reputed to be a very shallow draft? Glad you aren't in charge

Says more than you know (about us both really)

At worst he would provide versatile depth, something we are sorely lacking, as can be seen by some of the players getting a game at the moment. It would need to be something very decent, and not a draft pick, for me to be happy to trade him.

I didn't think we could have a 'best player'. Wasn't that where your argument before stemmed from?

Makes perfect sense. The media, EFC and AFL from day one have tried to seperate Dank and EFC and the players. They have tried to make it two seperate issues. Today they made yet another move to make Dank look like the bad guy (which he probably is). Wait a week or so and there will be more about how hard done by the players are. It is all to get the public to think how they want the public to think. EFC has been massively successful in their media campaign from day one. This is just another example of it continuing.

I think the problem isn't that we can't catch a break, You may find it is the opposite

Don't think you will get anyone here saying we are good enough and that we don't have more work to do OD.

You can have both bb. You can want more, and not accept losses, and be angry and disappointed while still acknowledging the growth and improvement that is occuring.

We have improved as e could actually have won the game. Could you say that 2 years ago?

We are also better than Brisbane, and our results are massively improved. Save for a big loss here and there we are in games longer, and have a chance to win many. 2013 we got spanked from pillar to post week in week out. Our results in terms of wins may not have increased markedly but our competitiveness is massively higher. People seem to not realise just how bad we were.

Being disappointed and angry at the loss is not mutually exclusive to being positive about the future and accepting of where we are at. I for one am not happy with the loss, was bloody furious straight after, but I can see the light we are striving for and can see the massive improvement Roos has made. We were miles behind last place. We have fought up and passed some of the back markers.

Really? Are you that blind to the game style, the resilience that is building, the confidence in the players that is building? It is there, you just need to look for it.

You didn't know that before the saints game? Realistically winning that may mean the difference between 14 or 15 at the end of the year. Either way I would hardly say we are out of the cellar. We are closer to the door though.

Difference is that Neeld took an OK team and destroyed it. Roos is rebuilding it, and if you can't see that it is working then maybe don't come back in 2017 and maybe try a different sport, as you clearly have no idea what AFL is about.