deespicable me

No-one here has gone much above $1.50. He's 23. The next 3 years he should be able to continue to improve. He's now got the body to tackle and he's as fit as anyone in the side. He just needs confidence, which will come as he becomes a mainstay in the side. I'm buying for sure. $2.50.

I have been to a few pre-season training sessions and here are my thoughts. Forwards JVR to debut round 1 alongside TMac and Fritta. Ben Brown looks really well at training but I am guessing they are holding him back and his aim will be 10-12 games and be one of the fit ones come finals if we make it. I think they may rotate them a bit. Schache is the injury back-up. He can't hold a mark but is an option to "create a contest" if one of the other 3 go down. Chandler is being set up for Kozzies role in the forward line. They may revert to Kossie at some stage but I think Kossie might be played almost as a wild card through the middle and forward of centre. Chandler has had an excellent pre-season. He is almost a lock to come in. Spargo has had an excellent pre-season as well and is a lock in his position. His work in Match sims has been very good. This leaves a few headaches with ANB who should hold his spot. Harmes and Melksham are candidates to miss. So the main 6 in my mind will be Chandler, Spargo and ANB as the smalls and JVR, TMac and Fritta as the main targets. Harmes or Melksham may get a go as the 7th forward off the bench, especially if they take the teams to 23 and no sub. Lawrie is a long shot but should move to the midfield for Casey and if he goes past Dunstan who is an injury back up at best then he may get a go in the second half of the season, and those that think Sestan is a chance in my humble are kidding themselves. He is strong and he will take his chances near goal but his weaknesses are glaring. He gets caught with the ball a lot and his disposal is poor. Has a lot to work on. Jefferson in one pre-season has been impressive. He is a natural footballer and has a lot of upside. Saw him on Wednesday after one play completely exhausted and unable to chase or compete even so clearly isn't AFL ready. An ideal youngster to take through the VFL system and should be a ripper in a year or two. Not sure about Howes. I like him but I'm not sure where he goes. He is the player that I don't know about. Mids Apart from the obvious we have Jordan, Sparrow, Hunter, Kossie and Grundy to fit in. It is probable the mids take 8 spots of the 22/23. Gawn, Trac, Oliver, Viney and Langdon are locks. Only injuries or inexplicable poor form would rule those 5 out. Jordan has been excellent in pre-season and looks ready to be given a full time crack. Having said that I'm not sure where but he and indeed Sparrow should make up the mid rotations. This still leaves Hunter, Grundy and Kossie without spots. I'm getting into trouble here. I think Woey is a mid as well but must be behind these players. I'm hoping he tears it apart at VFL level and pushes up for a second half year debut. Backs May, Lever and Petty and I think Brayshaw are locks. Brayshaw has done all pre-season off half back. Hibberd was flying in pre-season before getting injured. He may be over-looked for early rounds. I talked to Salem who said the thyroid issue shows up in blood tests. His reading is low I think. You can take pills to control high but only rest helps low. (I'm not sure what blood read out they test for and I'm clearly no doctor but he has to go through a pre-season build up again and keep his blood levels even.) I suggested mid -season and he was pretty sure if all goes well it will be early season. Either way 2 players who are mostly best 22 probably won't be there in round one. So we have only 2 players to go or 3 if one extra goes to the bench. Choosing from Rivers, Bowey and Turner as the main candidates, with McVee and Deakin Smith as others well in the mix as most here have indicated. Both McVee and Smith have had good pre-seasons with McVee being used with intent. He and Turner, depending on size of opposition forward lines may share that role. I hope Rivers and Bowey are the two who make up the six backmen. Tomlinson will be a great full back at Casey and could walk into lesser teams, but I think has gone behind Turner. Joel Smith will probably get his body finally right in time to move on at the end of the year. Farris Wite should be someone to watch at VFL level. He is really quite good. I think. He needs to not get injured and play 18 odd games at VFL level. With the talent he has around himself and the obvious progress he has made in just one pre-season, he is an exciting prospect for the future. Adams looks good and will hopefully play 10-15 games at VFL level, hard to do taking on guys older and stronger so we wish him well. Plenty of depth and a lot of fun ahead. Hopefully we see the team develop further as they need to.

Talk about premiership hangover!!!!

Yeah again I mainly agree with you, lists do change quite a lot, and surprisingly quickly, I was just putting forward an opposing view. I think they are both worthwhile views and quite opposite to one another. The other thing to take into account is money. Every list needs balance whereby the wages of your bottom paid players, depth and developing players, can be just as important as your stars. I will be surprised though if our 2022 recruits get much of a show in their first 2 years. But hopefully it makes them hungry.

I agree but the opposing argument is also valid. That being that we have a team that is already hard to break into with Bowey, JVR and maybe Turner, Woewodin and Howes etc wanting their chances, to pick up a kid who's upside is fringe at best seems like a waste of resources. Given our draft position it will be very hard for the 'class of 22' to have any impact on our AFL team in the next two to three years. If Taylor and co. get an AFL talent into our side in the next two years from this years draft they will have done a very good job.

The crowd at Ikon Park was definitely dissapointing. Lovely balmy evening, but very few there considering the players close contacts were probably half the crowd. From the west myself I refuse to trek out to Casey any more, but try to get to any game within inner city, but this year we were so often at Casey or interstate it just highlights our issues of a home ground. Maybe we would have got more at Casey? I think we'll win it this year and if our last two finals are at Ikon Park I'll be wrapped. Free parking everywhere 2 minutes from the ground. This is Daisy's last hurrah I would think and if they finally get a flag it would be fitting for the standout icon of the Women's game. I think Daisy will be as important and as much loved in Melbournes history as Robbie Flower in years to come. People really should be taking their chance to see her in action. Also if your as lucky as me you might also get to see Allissa Bannen go for a 7 bounce run around the wing leaving a couple of crows players in her dust. Wow, she's terrific.

Does this mean Collingwood should have a dog on their board.

Surely, given we aren't getting enough for Jackson, getting Lobb and pick 13 would be a better outcome than trading for Bruce.

I don't know your personal situation AF but I certainly don't know of too many footballers of the ilk of Jackson that are concerned by having to work 2 jobs to "keep up." Of course it was a different time, and my mother who is 94 was talking about that time. So she wasn't wrong. And your rubbish about 2.5 generations being locked out of the housing market is just that. Rubbish.

It's parenting. For better or worse. My mum always said that children when they get to an adult need to be "kicked out of the nest" Dads were very big on loyalty. Stick to your club. They are your new home. Nowadays the kids are told, just do you're time and you can trade back home.

Yes but if we just got everything we wanted we'd all be barracking for Geelong. There is solace in the fact that Freo have and probably will never win a flag.

If you go back across the VFL year and put together a highlights package on Van Rooyen not knowing his background, I think many on here would be drooling over him. And he's already on our list. His output was comparable to Hogan in his year and with another pre-season in the gym he will hit the ground in round 1 at approx 105kg and an appetite for senior footy. He should play 15 plus games next year with at least 5 of those where he will be a liability, but we have to play him next year to develop him properly. All discussions about our forward line should I think take him into account.

Well firstly I didn't. Grundy always had a beast mode similar to Mummy where they could hurt and wear down opposition midfielders. Weidemann isn't and never will be like that. But for all the trading and money can Grundy do all that again. Because it was taxing on his body as well. Further you are selling Sam short. He is developing a style that is pretty good and as part of a ruck duo can work well enough for us. But most importantly and something you "Grundy is God" believers conveniently neglect to highlight is that Sam is on our books already so you are not comparing Grundy to just Sam Weidemann but Weidemann AND a first round pick. And both for less money. So Hannibal Inc. you should keep it in perspective.

I hope he does bounce back. For mine though he has been mostly disappointing since his return to the side. We certainly lost more games than won with him playing and he kept Bowie out of the side. "every indication". Not so sure. I am worried about his hunger for the contest. I don't think it was where it should be. I am of the belief if we don't orchestrate change it's a quick slide back down to mediocrity. I am also of the view that we are being dangerously lazy thinking we will be back up the top with a couple of tinkers. Adding Grundy for instance. It's a brutal competition and there are signs we are reasonably happy with ourselves. On present form we are over-rated and ended as high as we did on early season form that was a couple of levels below Finals footy. If we keep thinking this way we are in for a rude shock. The team, the whole footy department needs change, fresh players and thinking.

A little rude Jnrmac, but maybe thats your style. Shoot 'em down, get personal. No worries.

So Sam Weidemann is just coming into that period of peak ability. He is in good shape and in my stupid little head the salary and picks we have to pay Grundy doesn't translate to much more productive output onfield. I don't get it.

Agree. Trac, Oliver, Viney, Harmes. Even Sparrow and Brayshaw. Not one of these players at the moment are elite ball users. The two teams that adopted our game plan in Swans and Collingwood use the ball better than us. Pendlebury as the pivot in the middle of the ground is elite. Swans are more prepared to keep movement on the ball when required. Both teams are high intensity, high pressure and create opportunities through turnover. Similar to the last 3 premiership winners in Melbourne, Richmond and Dogs. Interesting that dogs did it without a ruck and a lack of kpp's. Richmond with a mosquito fleet of runners who spread so well on turnover and Martin as their Pivot and elite distributor. Clarry could be our distributor but we seem to use him closer to the contest. As he ages we should be looking at Pendles and Martin and we should be using Clarry in a similar way. Surely it's a big mistake to think kicking down the line to Max and Grundy and Ben Brown and TMac is worth pursuing as a game plan. We should be evolving, getting youth and energy back into the side, and working on fine tuning chaos ball as that is the way now. Improve our forward line. Build the team around Kossie, not Max. As fantastic as he is our Max advantage needs to be downsized as Max ages.

I would have thought it re-inforces my theory. What are we doing playing an injured bloke for half a year? Same with Salem. If they're injured don't play them and make new plans. Catering to injured players isn't a successful game plan. How can you put that up as an excuse?

This is a mistake. Paying overs to get in an old injured hack to re-inforce a game plan that is old and been trashed. Kick it down the line. We shouldn't be doubling down on the "Max is the best ruck in the league" game plan. If we want to reduce the reliance on Max to be our game winner, change the game plan.

I reckon there are 3 or 4 players from the Casey side who would immediately make our AFL side better. Turner. Played mostly on a small for Southport and pretty much towelled him up. Is young, reads the play well and hits targets coming out. Would replace Hibbo with him and let Hibbo get himself ready for the second half of the year, to see if he can get back in the side. The other alternative is Salem. I personally (knowing that many would disagree, and understandably so) would look to trade Salem. If the return and money saving is worth it . Otherwise tell him he needs to do a lot of work berfore and during pre-season because at this stage he's not best 22. Woewodin. Plays wing. Is super strong and fit and will improve if he commits over the off season. Takes JJ's role which is a bit sad but I think JJ needs to look at developing a secondary role as he is ok as a winger but isn't quick enough and hasn't really made the wing his spot, never to lose. Maybe a half back flank but they are already taken, JJ's other option is to work on leg speed. JVR. This is pretty obvious, he is a unique talent and with a further pre-season, fitter, stronger and with maybe 5 more kilos on his impressive frame, should be starting 22 Weidemann. Has done everything asked of him, has had a player who he can naturally replace, (admittedly as a slight downgrade) a player leaving, and in the last third of the VFL season has finally excelled in a position. He has obviously taken longer to develop to the point where many think he won't make it but give him the position, tell him he's considered top 22 and tell the Pies to get stuffed. Just a further point on why we are chasing Grundy. We are being soft on Max. It's the wrong call because Max wants an easier life. Max has been and will always be, a champion for Melbourne FC and also the AFL but he liked the idea of easing Jacko into the role and he would go forward. This hasn't worked this year. It did last year. And more importantly getting Grundy reinforces a game plan that has been trashed this year. Kicking down the line. Stagnant movement. it's old, Goodwin needs a new game plan not bring in a bloke that re-inforces an old one that isn't working. Get to those blokes and tell them if they do the work they're in and we will be a better side next year.

What West Coast players would you guys like. I know Allen has been mentioned, but think outside the full forward box and look at their list. They would have to want to, but boy oh boy they could be playing out their careers in a bottom 4 side as opposed to coming to a finals club. It must be attractive to a few of them. I haven't watched them at all this year so don't have a clue. That Josh Kennedy goes alright. But seriously folks.

Looks like you didn't rate them much higher than me La dvc.

Just a couple of points. 1. Jackson is going home to be a part of his family and build his life in Perth. His family are into Fremantle. As a consequence, there is very little chance of him going to West Coast. The only reason West Coast get involved and we keep that negotiation open is to try and secure a better deal. Those two teams hate each other. 2. The Grundy negotiations involve two factors, how much salary Collingwood will pay and draft picks. So if they pay $400,000 per year of his ongoing salary and we take up $600,000, then we would have to offer up a pick around 10. If it's only $200,000 Collingwood pay and we carry the rest (god forbid) then theres a point where they should be giving us a pick. Whats the equilibrium???? For me I don't really want to pay much more than about $500,000 a year for Grundy and he's worth about pick 25-30. I don't think that will satisfy Collingwood and I hope we don't get shafted. I don't like the deal. Leave them in a world of pain.

Don't worry I'm sure we'll all be back next year. But to call people "on here" hand wringers and fair weather supporters is ridiculous considering the obvious issues with the team and the disappointing coaching efforts to try and address those issues. To win 6 of our last 14 games for the year is disappointing.

Anyway we're past the "loading" phase of club life. We're up to the "dumping" phase