deanox

I agree. I cannot believe they have been allowed to continue to train. I can only assume the AFL has approved the training because it involves almost a whole team out of competition. I think any suspension should start from the day they stop all involvement, but not sure it will happen that way unfortunately.

I think you will find that those salaries are probably readily available through the union EBA. Those people are paid set wages. Same with first and second year AFL players.

March 7 is the date of the Bombers first NAB cup fixture. Assuming they get a verdict before then, the penalties will be back dated to the date the infraction notices were delivered (except arguably for any player who played in international rules), which I believe was November 14. 6 months makes it May (players miss 6 rounds), 12 months makes it the full year. If the players play on March 7 before a verdict, and are found guilty, bans will start from then (6 months makes it September).

DC, I really think that transparency of wages, particularly middle tier players, will see more of them look to change clubs, which will be the true benefit of FA. At the moment FA is only helping big clubs attract big names, either on megabucks or on low dollars for the finals opportunity. Making wages public will do two things: 1) Make it clear that good players take pay cuts to get to good teams, thus negating the "benefit" of free agency. 2) make middle teir players more susceptible to attempted poaching by removing the murkey middle men. Clubs will know exactly who is underpaid, and players will know exactly who they should be paid more than. In my opinion this will flatten the player wages out a bit. The clubs will be forced to pay that bit extra to the middle tier players, which at the moment they are paying marquee players and pretending that they don't have the money for. It will make it clear that a handful of players make obscene amounts of money compared to the rest. Better for the players, better for the clubs. Except for the big clubs of course.

The payments would be reported retrospectively I.e. At the end of each season

The footballers should want it too. Apart from the superstars on mega bucks, the transparency is likely to drive the value of mid tier players up.

I'm all for it. It's a necessary evil to protect the integrity of the game. It removal speculation and doubt. It will encourage real free agency. I can't see any downsides, except perhaps the public knowing footballers salaries. And honestly, we know exactly what rookies and first and second year players get, and we guess pretty accurately the big payments already.

My understanding is that in the ASADA interviews the players were asked what they were injected with etc. and if they recall certain substances being mentioned etc. I suspect that ASADA has most of the pastures on record saying "thymosin sounds familiar" (or similar) and "no I'm not sure which type of thymosin" and "no I've never heard of thymoddulin" etc. The player interviews will be used I bet.

Guys. I agree with you. We as a group have discussed this to death. The intricacies, the details. I am saying that the football public, and the media who directs a lot of the convo, will be more lenient in their take. Even now the media is looking after the players and lots of public sympathy is directed to them. Doesn't make it right.

As a general rule I agree, but I do not believe this will be the prevailing historical view.Note my words were "how I think they will be remembered" not what I think of them.

I'm not so sure. I think they should all get very serious punishments and so do most people I speak with. But that doesn't equate to "Intentional cheating". I think history will remember them as "the players caught up in the Essendon supplements scandal" target than put them in the Justin Charles drug cheat category.

Disagree. I think the players will come out Ok. They were naive and are ultimately responsible but they were duped. No intent on their parts. Hird however will go down in flames.

As an ex-union front rower, I can confirm that a fair bit goes on in those scrums that makes no sense to anyone but the front rowers. Even the pushing and holding and wheeling etc. is a side game to the real contest. Scrums aren't always about out pushing the opposition pack. A lot of the time it is about trying to win the penalty. I have heard that story above, but not in relation to scrums. That is horrible regardless of when it is said. My experience suggests it is more about on field pscolohical and physical combat. Boring on angles, taking side steps, steps back. hitting hard/soft, wheeling sideways. Anticipating oposition moves and countering in a way to draw the penalty. Scrums are a lot of effort, I'm not sure if many players would have the breath or energy to sledge like that during them.

That will "reset" the provisional suspension date to the date of their last match. I bet the players want this sorted before then.

No leaks when Essendon is out of the picture. "No evidence" has become 5 days of presentations. I can't imagine ASADA has 5 days of "nothing". Will be interesting to see how long the defence is. Any idea how long the panels usually takes to pass judgement on these cases? If there was a positive sample it would be quick but this may take weeks.

If the players are found guilty I expect all the support staff to be subsequently charged. Including Hird and Reid. This may see Goodwin at risk too. I am I interested to know what the club has done to mitigate this. Hopefully, enough.

That article sums up the Hird supporter camp position: everyone is against him because he is great and there is no evidence otherwise. I'd suggest he should be sacked purely for his involvement in the "uncontrolled pharmaceutical experiment" that was identified in the initial report (and in Essendon's own internal report). He was in charge. He failed a duty of care. Isn't that all he needs to lose his job?

My understanding is they are technically suspended now BUT they are still training at the club AND some have played in the international rules series. Surely the IR matches at the least mean that provisional suspension cannot be considered in place before those matches. Similarly, their first NAB cup game is March 6, I assume they'll have the Tribunal findings by then but if not and they play, surely the start date resets. Edit: in short, I'd like to know if Essendon will be able to keep stalling the process through appeals etc or if we are now at that critical point.

Thanks for the info but that doesn't quite answer my question. I am interested to know IF the current AFL Tribunal finds them guilty, and the players choose to appeal, can the players keep playing until the appeal is heard? I assume not - that the suspension will be in effect - however I haven't seen that confirmed anywhere.

Can someone confirm the penalty and appeals process? I understand that the players can appeal if found guilty (to an speaks board and the to the CAS) but I would like to know of the penalties stand in the mean time. Ie if found guilty and they appeal, are they suspended until the appeal is heard?

Assuming you've had a bit of a read, can you summarise? I personally don't accept "protecting the players identities given half have been identified in the media and the rest can be discerned. If anything publishing their names is fair to those players under suspicion who aren't actually involved.

I suspect that of the case against the players is proved then show cause notices will be issued against all the coaches and support staff. But getting the players sorted first is more important: they are still currently playing!

Amazing how when the heat is turned up there are no leaks at all! We aren't even getting a summary report. I wonder what we'll get at the end? Just the verdict and penalty?

It's been so quiet. Not many leaks. Maybe the Essendon side don't have much worth leaking?

AFL and EFC leaks are one thing. Ex-County Court judge leaks are another. And they are the guys that count here.