Rhino Richards

They said that 20 years ago when South went up there and they could not support one. Look at the population numbers and the TV ratings for AFL out of Sydney. The AFL need to spot a second team (in 5 years) and eventually a third team (8 to 10 years) in Sydney to thrive. Its makes no sense having Melb support 10 teams and Sydney only one in a national competition.

Based on hope Two sheds. I believe that MFC future is not stand alone with one or more of the following Melbourne entities....MCC, Melb Storm, Melb Victory, Netball etc. We cant survive on our own and wont. St Kilda have been financial unstable like there Boards for 40 years despite their large supporter base. Not sure how financial they are. Its either two of Rich, St K and Melb surviving in Melb. long term.

Like Paris Hilton or Brittney Spears....

I think his issues got there about two years ago and he has been behaving poorly for quite along time.

True. But that aint it. It was a poor football zone for the Bulldogs. Its an economic low spot with minimal growth and poor per capita incomes with no existing infrastructure for AFL. Its the closest thing to a death sentence you could get.

I agree with the negatives and there are many. I cant stand them. But I do take my hat off to them....they can pull over 30,000 members even when there side is that bad. They have a very large supporter base that AFL could ill afford to disenfrachise. Its no guarantee for them but it gives them a lifeline. But hell they are crap every where else.

Interesting call on the Saints. Gippsland cant support an AFL side. Its not economically strong enough and the Saints would dissolve there. How about a third team in Sydney?

The AFL have been planning the Kangas to be interstate club for years....Sydney, Canberra...Now Gold Coast At present outside Collingwood and Essendon, no Vic Club is stand alone financially profitable. Carlton have the potential to be as do Richmond (large supporter base). Geelong will be the Victorian regional team. Hopefully Melbourne survives in some form. Bulldogs and Saints are stuffed. The AFL will probably look like this in the future (10 years or so) NSW 1 (3) - 2/3 City or 1 regional QLD 1 (3) - 1 City, 1 Gold Coast, 1 FNQ/NT (Bulldogs???) SA 2 (2) - WA 2 (2) Tas/NT 0 (1) - Hawks Victoria 6 (10) - Coll, Carl, Essen, Geel, Melb (?), Rich/StK (Only 1 to stay) There is no way Victoria can support 8 teams and will struggle to support more than five.

It is a generalisation because generally, it is believed to be true by people who make statements in absence of actual facts.

Its interesting about Fevola. His Coleman medal in a crap year is testimony to his ability to perform. The pity is that he has managed to also self destruct on and off the field. He should be an elite player but is a head case that destructively compromises his natural ability. Very much damaged goods. Pike is 200 game 4 premiership footballer who had real talent. His 4 flags have been a rich and outrageous reward for another perennial head case. His glory years were on a series of one year low dollar contracts that reflected Clubs hesitancy with his off field issues. His off field problems lead him to play with 4 clubs where his time was at each was surrounded by controversy and problems despite the four flags. Despite his good fortune to play in 4 flags, he made zip from the game He could have been a personally highly decorated club champion with a peerless football record. However, he remains a talented contradiction when you look at his career. Despite the flags he could have got more out of his career. Carey should have ended a peerless champion of the game with his head held high (like Hird). However he is despite his playing record, a person of dubious reputation and character whose career ended in high farce and ridicule. He should have finished at North and been spoken of in the same breath as Archer. For a player who is possibly their greatest player, North dont revere him and prefer not to talk about him.

Like I said, thanks for the generalisation.

Could Sampi actually live on his own or does that not fit the generalisation yo bro?

I heard the same said about Wayne Jackson, Ross Oakley etc......... The AFL is not going to carry a long term financial basket case in the competition. South Melb and Fitzroy were examples of clubs that were not going to survive in the national competition. There's nothing different on thatr front The Kangaroos are a financial basket case in their current state and the current Kangas Board solution does not address the problem. However, I think Demitriou has erred in other areas like drug policy and matters bringing the game into disrepute.

Nothing like a generalisation as a prop for a solution. Heard a rumour that non indigenous players like to stick together as well.

While I am not a fan of Sampi's if we pick him up at low cost and we get 2 to 4 years where we he plays well then he has been a bargain and a great pick up with PSD No 3 or ND pick 70+. There have been some good points made elsewhere that Sampi is a different proposition to Pickett. They are right. We gave pick 20, $300,000 a year to player to play a proven critical role in our side. He failed MFC badly and let it down publicly and ungraciously. Pickett's freakish talents were behind him and in his own mid he had nothing to prove in football and was not interested. And DB would have been involved in the decision to cut the 2004 NSM in 2005. If Sampi fails on a one year contract then its good bye with little expense and little financial loss to us. Everything else is upside.

Yup. No doubt about it.

But what each Pagan example has shown and the recent WCE debacle has clearly shown that enduring success ON THE FIELD can only be achieved by ensuring the OFF FIELD issues are resolved. Whatever the Pagan touch was, it is clearly flawed. And given DB's experience I am sure he is aware of this. I agree with you about MFC problems, I hope DB has a more sensible approach such matters. BTW, Pagan failed with Angwin and Norman as well. Given the strike rate he has had at Carlton he has struck alot of fools gold and your Carlton mates have clearly been chuffed by it. Carlton have been absolute crap over the past 5 years with an appalling skill level. Some of this can be sheeted home to Pagan. Its also clear from Koutas and Campo's comments Pagan managed to alienate much of the core playing group. So much for the "touch".

Fevola, Pike and Carey are all footballers with substantial ability who used it in various ways and varying levels. However they did so without Pagan having any impact on their off field problems which in some cases ultimately consumed or undermined their careers. You measure the success of players in terms of a metric of on field performance. Pagan has an enviable record as Coach but he has done nothing to earn the reputation of the "touch". All three players have bucketloads of ability which Pagan tapped for on field success. All three have substantial social problems linked to their football that Pagan did nothing for. Pagan tolerated all this crap for football success but did nothing to turn troubled players around. Its interesting that Pike and Carey were both sacked on terms of their off field behaviour while Pagan was there. Fevola is at the crossroads of his career. Fevola is a head case who can play football but is a cancer in the Blues culture. He either shapes up this year or they should trade him at the first instant. He is damaged goods and is as more of an off field problem than he has ever been. Sheedy had a side that was prepared to attack the ball at ever contest coupled with a back bone of out and out stars Hird, FLetcher and Lloyd. Nothing strange there. Pike was a very talented footballer who was also a perennially off field violent person with a drinking problem. He was only really focussed as a footballer during the premiership runs at North and Brisbane (one of the best sides put together). He would have to have been the luckiest players ever to play the game participating in four flags. There have been many better who have not played in one. Sacked by three clubs. Another club imploded on him but there were troubles there. Picked up in 2 PSDs by a premiership club and another Club on the verge of greatness. When there was not the sniff of premiership glory he repeatedly self destructed. No midas touch there

The writing is on the wall for the Kangas move North to the Gold Coast or ultimately perish. http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/kangaroos...3618965952.html

No. It was just me. The issue was Pagan's ability to manage players who had off field problems Carey was a magnificent player and one of the best. And Pagan does deserve credit for that. However behind the scenes, Carey's off field behaviour and indiscretions were known, tolerated and went unmanaged by Pagan and the Club. Unfortunately it came to a public and destructive climax for Carey and his personal life.

Well done guys on making the effort.

I am not sure what the Pagan touch is as I have given 3 significant talented and troubled footballers who Pagan has failed to change or manage. I understand the issue with managing misbehaving footballers I dont think the label is at all accurate. I am not sure Sheedy or Matthews are necessarily better replacements.

Troubled and talented footballers always provide a challenge for Clubs seeking success but also wanting to maintain a winning and popular profile and culture. IMO Sampi was a talented but inconsistent and sometimes undisciplined footballer. I am not sure he had ever worked out what was really required for AFL and whether he wanted it. Off field the issues arising for him were serious and numerous and raise serious questions of character. They did seem to have been directly linked to the more cancerous aspects of the WCE and if Sampi ran away to the bush from a small two club town then a big city is not necessarily the medicine. By all means look at Sampi but the words "CAVEAT EMPTOR" apply. FWIW, I think Pike's (periodical) indiscretions were minor to Sampi's issues. Pike had a very very fortunate career and made the most of it despite his off field behaviour. But that's another story.

He was never off the WCE list. The nub of this is that if WCE took Cousins off their list they would be terminating his contract and liable to pay the amounts owing for this year and 2008 now thereby blowing their salary cap. WCE will keep Cousins on the list to allow outstanding contractual payments to be spread over the two years. Although what is confusing is that the AFL has deregistered him as a player. It makes it more unlikely that Cousins will return to AFL and minimises the financial reasons why Cousins would take legal action against WCE.

I completely agree Redleg. Well done for doing so. I think if MFC is to survive in 20 years time as its "own" entity it will be a different structure to what we see today. I see it either being some form of associate to a more prominent Melbourne sporting club or an amalgam of different sporting interests with a common focus on Melbourne.