Rhino Richards

Its more than the list. Its the whole Club. I dont think any Club could with stand Benny's behaviour and interests. He has almost singlehandedly gutted the WCE with his behaviour. His cancerous influence has split the playing group, undermined junior players and without doubt been a primary catalyst for possibly the best AFL footballer in the past 20 years leaving WCE. Its an unmitigated disaster. Ben and the Club are at fault for tolerating it. The AFL have been made to look stupid, dishonest and complicit in Benny's activities.

Agreed about the rarity issue. I think the issues with Cousins go beyond the "clean" issue and even that one is difficult one to address. There is no guarantee that this rehabilitation will be enough if at all. I think Cousins whole personal life and attitudes are in question and his football is a part of that. Cousins off field behaviour and his public comments have shown him to a sly, unreliable character and I am not sure what basis of trust and commitment you could rely on him for. I dont buy the change of scenery will do him good. If he comes East its a bigger drug market. Cousins has already discovered Crown Casino, his ratbag mate Gardiner is here and there is an AFL Club that apparently shares his hobbies! If he is re registered by the AFL what terms and conditions will they put on the Club and him in regard his future playing career. The other issue is what hunger does he have to play AFL? There has no doubt he has been a great player but at 30 how much is in the tank? Also his on field leadership is just destroyed by some brainless and immature judgement calls off the field which really undermine where he is at? For a club like MFC that is trying to build a successful culture why would we want to invest in someone that has almost single handedly destroyed the culture and future premiership hopes of another Club?

Correct Dr. Its not just home games, its home games at the MCG against Vic Clubs Collingwood, Essendon, Carlton, Hawthorn, Richmond, Geelong, St Kilda. I am not against interstate games. FCS MFC need as much experience playing them as possible. I hate desolate home games against Freo Port WCE etc.

Dappa, For any club to win a flag a number of things need to go right. For MFC to win given its financial and other disadvantages we need alot to go right. I also hope that a sense of professional and personal pride hits hard amongst the MFC playing group and hope DB can instil some of the necessary atttributes. But I cant see how retaining a skillful player who is perenially inconsistent and an underperformer with a lazy, questionable attitude on and off the ground and has the questionable leadership maturity is a component of a flag. When I look at the thoroughness and commitment of Geelong and the work rate of their players when they dont have the ball, I wonder where would TJ fit into that side? The answer he wouldn't either by the Coach's discipline or the strong players culture. Both areas have been poor at MFC and we have allowed "star" players to operate on their terms. Hopefully DB stamps that out. At 28, I am not sure TJ can turn it around attitude wise. There will be games where Brisbane [censored] sides and TJ picks up a silky 35 possessions and posters will moan we made a mistake. But they will strangely silent when the following week Brisbane gets flogged and TJ is invisible, looks apathetic and picks up few touches. Trading TJ also sends a message about culture change and what is expected and accepted at MFC. Brock McLean summed it up and he is one that needs to walk the walk after last year. We wont be successful without a successful culture.

Firstly, the WCE games away fom home reflect a mixed bag over the past 3 years with little "home away from home". I dont see the analogy of a home away from home as the Hawks are playing 5/6 (more like 4) games per year against teams who dont play their at all. Also the Hawks record this year as top side at Aurora was 2and 2 this year and hardly made it there own. Here is the number of games WCE have played away interstate for the past three years (2007, 2006,2005) Tel Dome (4,3,1) Skilled Stad (1,1,1) MCG (1,2,4) AAMI (2,2,1) Sydney(1,0,1) Aurora (1,0,1) Canberra (0,1,0) Gabba (0,1,1) Hardly home away from home stuff. In fact its all over the place like a backbacker on the run. WCE even complain about lack of MCG games. There is no doubt the draw is a factor but it is not factor that condemns a side that it cant address other issues that really determine its the position over the long term. Its a factor Redleg. But not the mountain Dean is trying to make it.

deano, the AFL is interest in crowd numbers, sponsor dollars, TV rights contracts and membership numbers. MFC have historically had a low volume demographic that is a legacy now. Collingwood has that profile whether it is winning or losing. Its gets favourable opportunities on its draw to maximise the $$$$ from the brand "Collingwood". If MFC are to get a better draw it needs to actively compete in the profile of numbers above. One of the ways of doing that is winning. And it is hard for Club that is histroy rich, assets and financially poor with 3rd rate facilities and up until 5 /6 years incompetent and unskilled management. I know its hard and MFC has got to get smarter in all area of operation to counter. There are no easy rides for us with the AFL. So its no good bleating like a cut snake about the draw. It is logical flimsy to state that we are denied success because of the draw and we wont be successful till we get a better draw from the AFL. Its not true and it wont happen. A less favourable draw is only one of the hurdles this Club has to get over to be successful. However interstate clubs play interstate regularly. They are forced to play for the ulitimate trophy interstate at the MCG. If anyone wants to bleat it should be them.

Its called $$$$$. There is a lack of it at MFC.

Thanks for recognising an opinion rather than a rational assessment. I gave an opinion on Haddrill only. I then said the coaching staff would have more knowledge on the all the players cut by Freo and should make a rational assessment on all. Apologies accepted.

Dean, its about getting bums on seats. You do that by winning. You need to understand that the AFL seeks to maxmise the community acceptance and support the games in order to sell TV rights and get the paying public to cough up. If its a choice between Collingwood vs Anyone else and getting 50,000 at the MCG and Melbourne vs Port Adelaide at the MCG getting barely 20,000 what do you think they will do? The draw will not be more equitable until we can perform in accordance with the AFL's metric. I dont know why people continue to bleat about playing interstate 4,5,6 or 7 times. The interstate clubs play interstate at least half their games yet are still successful. Why is that? Its a shallow cop out to put the draw at the culprit of our lack of success. The reality is that the AFL is made up of the richer and poorer clubs. We are in the latter. As a consequence we have to do things smarter to overcome the commercial, demographic and financial barriers we have. The truth its a great effort for a Victorian club to win the AFL flag these days. Given the support and operational base MFC has its going to take something special to do it. And its no good whinging about the inequality because the level playfield has never existed in the AFL/VFL and will always be driven by economics.

Edwards was pick 82 in the ND of 2006 so he is excluded. The test with Gill is can heack it up for approx. 50 games or so. If player was a Top 20 pick a couple of seasons ago then is delisted then there is due cause to ask questions about him. Some of those reasons may completely sway you away from recruiting him. Recruiting and list management is far too professional these day for sides to readily cast off players who would become stars at other clubs. I think the choice between a delisted ex- Top 20 NQR player and a draft pick No 70 is going to have to be on a case by case basis. IMO there have only been three players who have risen high from the PSD. Simmonds. Smith and Bolton. I could include Stevens but there were special circumstances to his disposition. The best of the rest have been serviceable.

Interesting comments. From my review, there has been a truckload of failures and duds in the PSD. However there have been some gems: 1998 - Joel Smith (Hawks) 1999 - Troy Simmonds (Melb then traded) 2000 - Shane O'Bree (Coll), Simon Godfrey (Played 100 games..settle down) 2001- Brett Voss (St Kilda) 2002 - Trent Henschel (Adelaide) -maybe doubtful 2003 - Craig Bolton (Swans) 2004- Nick Stevens (Carlton) extinuating circumstances, Michael Johnson (Freo) 2005- None 2006 - Its early days but... Guerra (Hawks), Porplyzia (Adelaide) 2007 - None Its no certainty that there will be any gold in the PSD especially for Pick 3 in what is looking like a skinny list of NQR rejects.

Since the mid 60s Dean we have been disadvantaged in the premiership race much of it our own doing. It wont turn around until what Redleg and Ted Fidge have said. Get bums on seat and win games. Collingwood got to top 4 because they were a top 4 side. MFC were bottom 4 because we were a bottom 4 side. The draw is useful but dont overplay its importance. Their are more fundamental issues directly under the Club's control that govern success or failure. We have crashed out of the finals in recent years because we were not good enough under September pressure. Many of those games were at the G. Like Collingwood has, MFC needs to learn how to play interstate grounds. Exactly Redleg. Right on the money. And before whinging supporters say well we would get more supporters if we played at the MCG. Well the fact is we dont. We are a low membership low supporter base club. We will not get Collingwood type draws until we pull Collingwood type crowds consistently.

No it isnt. Its reality. The Kangaroos will be in Carrara within the next two years to survive. So they should be considered an interstate club soon. Otherwise we would probably be playing them at the dome. People have to realise that while Collingwood can pack out stadiums they will be favoured with a draw that maximises the AFL's crowd numbers. I have no qualms on this occassion with Eddie McGuire's comments. He is just representing Collingwood's interest. However given what has happened with AFL support of fledgling interstate clubs I would not be surprised if North did get draft/list concessions.

Good point. Its why you treat with great suspicion and caution any poster's assessment of a prospect especially those that gush.

Its actually Richmond vs Melb at the Dome. Its a Tigers home game. They will be screwed as MFC supporters dont attend the Dome in great numbers. No complaints about that. Stuff them. There will be alot of whinging on this site about the draw. However, MFC as a crowd drawing team is embarrassing and is hardly going to demand and receive the draw benefits that befit a Collingwood and Essendon. Even Carlton....cant stand them but I do recognise that even during the dark days their supporters still front in reasonable numbers. I am not sure what the WCE drug culture has to do with the scheduling of a game between two Vic based clubs. Lets wait for the full draw and do full analysis of each team before we launch into the mindless annual bleating about the draw. I actually think for the lack of leverage we have had, we have managed in some years a reasonable draw not withstanding where we have finished the year before.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. You challenged my use of the words "sensible assessment" and then implied a meaning to my words which clearly was not evidenced had you actually read the sentence before. I then assisted you by quoting that statement to clarify that. Its hardly selective quoting. Its actual quoting within context. A point you fundamentally missed. Further, your claim of my "rational assessment" was actually my opinion of Haddrill from watching both Freo and Haddrill from afar. There are a number of elements that need to be assessed in considering Haddrill including amongst other things the state of his knees post reconstruction. His profile does not excite me and posters who draw supoort for their argument to pick Haddrill from quotes off supporter websites should be gunning for us to re-list some of the deadwood we have already cut as supporter sites traditionally horrendously overvalue their own. Then they dont understand when they are cut. So, given my regard for CAC's skills, DB's judgement and CC's Freo experience they should be able to make a better and informed assessment of the PSD value of any of the Freo offcuts than myself or any other poster. You are actually arguing in favour of my point of view despite your pretentious and highly vacuous "analysis". Its a pity you dont take the time to read before you frivolously nitpick.

Good luck to him and its great to have an intelligent mind with a football background to compliment the capable skill sets already on the Board.

"If CC, CAC and DB cannot make a rational assessment of the offcuts from Freo then no one can and they should not be in their respective jobs. I trust they will make that sensible assessment."

Having had professional experience cleaning up a financial disaster I know that too well. Unfortunately people like Pratt do not necessarily get to the top without a few skeletons. While he was not formally charged with anything regarding that matter, the levels of corporate governance, regulatory requirements and Insurance law would challenge those past behaviours on today's standards. If so, he would not be the first President caught up in these matters. MFC had one of its own like that who blonked a bit of money in the Club and was misguidedly labelled a "saviour".

I think you will find that Pratt owned Battery Group that was subject to an infamous fraud in the transaction to sell the companies. As detailed below there were limited losses to investors. Although a Battery Group director, I am not sure Pratt was "deeply involved" in its collapse. This collapse happen 16 years ago and there is no current litigation outstanding. Nor is Pratt subject to any convictions relating to it. The situations that brought the collapse have lead to changes in life insurance prudential supervision and legislation. Mre info here: http://fsi.treasury.gov.au/content/downloads/suppsubs/66.doc

From my experience reading supporter sites like Ology and D'land, provides absolutely no validation of whether a delisted player is worth a recall. Hell, in the last two years I have read some heartfelt but misguided defences of Read, Pickett, Bizzell, Ferg and Godfrey as worthy AFL players for another year. All completely crap. And if we have just delisted a 26yo courageous but defintely NQR defender who was always one good season in the weight room away from stardom, why would we punt on another 26 yo defneder who cant crack a regular game in a soft cultured club and with 2 knee recos. Risky....No....Ridiculous. If CC, CAC and DB cannot make a rational assessment of the offcuts from Freo then no one can and they should not be in their respective jobs. I trust they will make that sensible assessment.

How does the criminal behaviour of its President in running a cartel in the paper industry impact on the the operations of Carlton? If Pratt is guilty then he should step down as President. However, I understand that the Club is effectively run by others and Pratt is a financial contributor and titular role holder. I dont see Pratt stepping down as President as being a long term worry for Carlton. Fan has put together a fantastic post on Carlton and the AFL.

If he is getting 4 possessions a game over four years he must have been out and out injured. And four years injured is at least 3 years too many in AFL.

Actually, I discredited your argument at two levels. On one level you quote stats that have no credence what so ever and the stats that debunk your argument suggest Hodge been consistent all the way through and definitely AA material. And as Bob says when you make it up you get exposed. And this is happening to you more times that Hodges touches a ball in a game.

I have heard AFL commentators and sport journalist laud Luke Hodge as a very good footballer and rightly so. He is. Who were these people who said he was better than Judd? Surely no one credible in the football world. Once more your dip into the stats and use of them Freak has shown you out again as hot wind. Here are his stats from 2007. It shows him to be consistent through out the year and indicative of his AA standard form. http://au.sports.yahoo.com/afl/clubs/hawth...ke-hodge/220047