Rhino Richards

He might not play well some weeks but Green ...soft....What a myth!

We would have taken who ever was available out of Kruezer, Cotchin or Masten.

Exactly right Detox. Rpfc's analysis was about as rigorous as Yze attacking a contested ball.

Exactly Redleg. I trust them to make the right informed decision. This is not a "what the heck" punt on a player. If they dont think Sampi will make it then dont pick him.

I would agree with you DD. YM has a history of turning like a cut snake after a loss with abuse at MFC officials and players. I should have said credible posters. I think there is a real difference there. Its true that one of Yze's issues is the yawning gap between his best and worst and the growing scarcity over the years of his best. And as has been pointed out earlier there are clearly observed reasons for Yze's frequent disappearance in matches especially when the heat is on.

Please name the posters that have called Yze a crap player? It shows with your English and your inability to follow a discussion and understand the points of view given . If you actually followed the line of discussion you would have noticed that its focussed on what he has actually achieved. Nevertheless, I am happy you are chuffed with Yze achievements

Nugget YM has as usual proven nothing. Its the oldest trick in the book to keep talking up your players. What else would you expect a coach to say to the media? Your criteria for champion is flawed. His raw ability should have dictated him greater achievements. He sat back after 2002.

My deepest sympathies to the gentle hearted great one. He screwed the club over in 2002, he knows the caper. The ironic thing is that Yze was responsible for the suspension of negotiations. He was deplorable as a player and leader. No. He could have been a great player. He has won a Bluey and would be labelled a "champion" by some. But in my eyes he has not fully delivered on his considerable talent. Whether he does or does not perform in 2008, does not change my determination of him to date. In his final year for the best of the Club I hope he does have a good year. I am not confident he will do it.

Nugget, In 2002 and to an extent 2003, I would have agreed with you. But I started to see on field behaviours from Yze from 2004 onwards. Its now gone on for four years. In that time, as the game has quickened and the need to play for the contested ball has increased, the more Yze resorted to the negative lazy onfield tactics. He is good against weak oppositions or teams that dont man him up. His disapperating acts have increased as his cameo efforts have reduced. In my mind he has been a fringe player since the end of 2005 and his ability to fall back on his talents and not do the hard work have diminished as his skills have diminished. There is no doubt that he has lost yard in the past 3 to 4 years and his potent kicking skills are not so sharp and silky. In recent years there has been more a habit to have hasty pot shots than consider the team thing of centering the ball. He just cant cut the corners like he used to and get away with it In 2007, he just started to work harder and actually started to chase an opponent. Unfortunately when he did catch him and throw a tackle, he was merely brushed aside and showed that it is skill after 10 years of senior football he had not learned or applied one of the key skills in the game. To me Yze has been a disappointment because he never applied his abundant talent in his prime the way a Godfrey work like hell on the limited skill sets he had. Yze really had the ability to be that star but chose not to put in the efforts both with and without the ball that gets you there. He cheated on the delivery and been allowed to do so by the accommodating culture that has been at Melb. For the record, Yze's contract negotiations in 2005 were put on hold because of the perilous state of form exhibited Yze during that difficult streak for the team. As VC and leading player the continual lack of on field leadership and poor performance put the glowing model of consistency in some uncertainty over his VC and playing duties going forward. His finish to that year summed up his position...struggling for a game. MFC carried Yze during that extended period and had injuries not hit the side, he would not have been in the 2005 EF. As for TJ....a wasted talent with a lazy and apathetic attitude coupled with a gameboy mentality. Another culture issue. I am glad we acted on TJ and traded him while he has some market value. We should have done likewise with Yze in 2004.

When the Club and he were negotiating in 2002, his manager waved an offer from Carlton in the air and said through the media that Yze would walk. Its not unusual to negotiate a contract but it is unusual behaviour for a player who obviously loves and bleeds for the Club like Yze to hold a barrel to Club and threaten to walk. What was the Club to do let a current AA player walk into the PSD for nothing? He got paid big dollars that matched the Carlton deal. And what did he deliver over that time? From an AA player to a Captain on the interchange bench in a depleted side toepoking the ball instead of picking it up. MFC paid the price of a porsche and got a temperamental and unrealiable fiat from Yze. Robbo is another selfish player that epitomises the me too culture amongst the senior players. He is loyal to the point thatit suits Robbo to be loyal. At the end of his current contract, MFC assessed a selfish underperforming 28yo with 2 years of injuries and offered him a lower contract and rightly so. He publicly threatened to quit and sought a contract from the Doggies who were desperately short of forwards. Guess what ....they werent interested in an injury riddled 28yo player. He did consider his options. He had none and like Robbo often looks in the media... a naive fool with a big mouth. He took the two years at a cut rate. Neither Robbo nor Yze are loyal players in the same class as a Neitz and as they are evolved out of the list by DB and crew some of this selfish soft culture that has blighted this Club will go with it.

Correct. He could of. A legacy of ND's time at the Club that we did not seek to trade a player who lives on spasmodic delivery of talent when we could have got real value for him. At least we learnt the lesson with TJ. Yes he was "fuming" over Woey going so much so that he chose to mop the release of salary cap pressure brought by Woey's departure in his end of season 2002 contract negotiations. At the end of 2002 he publicly threatened through his manager in the media to go to the PSD if MFC did not acquiensce to his contractual demands. He had a 3 year contract being paid as a marquee player and delivered other than that. He finished the contract period as a highly paid front running benchwarmer in an injury trashed side as a supposed leader. And to give the "model of consistency" his due he tried similar tactics in his 2005 negotiations. What a club man. He has never been the player he was in 2002 where he was AA and has delivered less re occurring glimpses of that form in each year since.

He was very good in 2002 but he started his self serving antics in 2003 and the deterioration commenced on what could have been. BTW, Jim Stynes is the Club consecutive games record holder. Its a good analysis up to the end of 2005. In an injury riddled team in the EF against Geelong Yze as "Captain" for the injured Neitz struggled to get a game on the bench and when he did come on, would not commit to bending down and taking possession of the contested ball and toe poked the ball in front of him until it went out of bounds. Embarrassing and shallow effort. No wonder they took the leadership away from such a downhill skier. I fully realise MFC performed inconsistently over the past decade and the soft "me first culture" epitomised by some of our alleged stars and champions is a root cause of this. Our "model of consistency" has been one of the worst offenders. BTW, you severely mistake self preservation for physical and mental strength. I would back players like Kirk, Mitchell, Hodge and West with those attributes. Not the wallflower in the No 13 jumper. Also, when I look at the premiers over the past 5 years and I struggle to find selfish players amongst them. Should tell you something.

Spot on Maurie.

Correct. He could have been a champion but his approach to the game has compromised what could have been. You must be puzzled why Neitz is still playing? If the class involves avoiding the contested ball, let you opponent off run off you unaccounted why you argue with the umpire and go for contested marks one handed, I'll pass. This sort of "class" gets find out in tough contested football. Its an illusion. Its the same class that finds TJ out as well. I hope he has a big year.....it will make his ordinary inconsistent performances in 2005-2007 look embarrassing.

That's bulltish. He's been a model of consistency and hopefully he will return to his consistent best. Yze is a victim of his own failing and the increased demands on AFL footballers to be committed and accountable in the contest. One of the major issues with Yze has been his inconsistent application of his talents. He has been far from a model of consistency especially in the past three years. I cant think of a player who has been given so many opportunities to perform when his form has been waning and not always stood up to the pitch and delivered. Its all a reflection of the soft culture at MFC that we rewarded a talented but lazy and selfish player who does not put his head down when its his turn with the VC. As important leadership role players should and DO have looked up to him. Its no wonder they took it off him at the end of 2005. What a blight. As others have said any positive contribution from Yze this year, his last will be a positive. Otherwise he will once more rack up those hard contested tackles at Sandy.

I think after 10 years at MFC, CAC sought new challenges. He will definitely get them at Tigerland.

There is no reason then. He has not broken the contract but exercised a clause in the contract that was agreed between MFC and himself.

Rough call on Eishold. Yeah he choked it shooting for goal in the 1987 PF but had effectively stopped Healy and co the previous week at the MCG and in a final. Hell there have been far worse. Extremely harsh on Prymke. MFC had alot of poor players but Prymke was not one of them by a long stretch. For mine Chris Woodman and Damian Gaspar were the MFC players who I had absolutely no confidence in when they played and went near the ball. They never let my judgement down when they did.

He is good in the forward lines against crap oppositions and teams that dont man him properly. Against the harder tackling top teams he disappears. Brad Green hears footsteps....turn it up. Green has his limitations but when its turn to go the hard ball and put his body on the line...he goes. The comparison of a soft egg like Yze with Green is grossly misplaced. There is no where on the footy field for players who are soft. I would have thought the premiers over the last 5 years would have proven that. Soft players go missing in big games and September when it counts most.

Exactly H. When I read that article about I went . As H mentioned before you dont win big games with players who get spooked. Yze gets spooked. Yze was a very good player in 2002 then he started the short cuts and undisciplined and selfish football and he slowly went...downhill. FCS, keeping Woey and not Yze at the end of 2002....you're dreaming. FWIW, I really hope Yze does contribute in 2008.....I'm not holding my breath in expectation.

You need to look and consider the reasons that Trav was traded. The issue of the 2nd round PP does not change it a jot!

Nice try but no cigar. He did not play R22. Apart from a miracle snap, he was crap the first time we played them. Totally invisible. Tagged out of it by Houlihan!!

Thoughtful summary of the situation H. I agree about the Viney/Wells issue.

Quite correct Nugget. Neitz has become a better captaincy over the long haul. I always thought the captaincy sat awkwardly with Neitz up until 2002. But since then he has lead from the front. IMO Neitz has been a very good and durable captain for MFC but not in the great category. Neitz won the captaincy over Schwartz in 2000 for two reasons. Firstly as a player in 2000 and onwards Ox started to wane as a player as the toll of serious injury cam through. Secondly, Ox's volatile and unpredictable off field and sometimes on field behaviour as a player plus his known problem with vices made him an unrealiable candidate and culture issue.

Fact is you haven't done so despite being requested to do so. And your first list shows how off the target your original comment was. You have taken 2 statements one about Flower. The other about CAC and drawn the longest bow of connection without doing basic spadework. Strange business you are in if its devoid of facts.