Rhino Richards

Franky, Thanks for the report. Two questions if you can answer: No Meesen: Why? Any sign of Moloney on the track and how did he train?

Given he has been on the football list for 5 years with this year being his sixth. Its reasonable to think that a player of his size would either show that he has it or not within that period. We took CJ with pick #36 in the 2002 draft as a concessional F/S pick. At the time he was regarded as being a player that would have gone early had MFC not played the F/S card. Its a third round pick. Some hit some dont. I dont sweat those as much as first round picks going astray. Over that time, the MFC footy department would have enor How could you or anyone know the same level of detail as the Footy department unless you are as involved? As a spectator you are watching the whole game and following the ball in many instances. In the coaching box there are a variety of focusses on specific parts of the ground. Your frustration is what you and others dont see in the humdrum and excitement of the game. Over that time, the MFC footy department would have enormous insight into CJ. Indeed, DB is no fool and CJs shortcomings would not be lost on him. He will give him an opportunity to make it but CJ would not want to burn it as a fringe player. He does not have many credits to burn. The issue of lack of opportunity is a furphy and the issue of a wasted pick is a distraction. If anything the Footy dept needs to understand why a player who looked alright in a pre season game does not have the characteristics to take it to the next level. If he needs support to take the next step give him that support. Having been on the list for 5 years would suggest that has been the case. But FCS dont charity games to players because supporters believe they have not got the opportunity. I think ball is in CJ court like it has been for 2 or 3 years. Does he want it bad enough? I am not convinced he does from performances at Sandy and his lamentable efforts in the big league. Jaded, by playing the alternating lack o opportunity/wasted pick line, I take it you never lose.

No it wasn't.

He was recruited bottom age and his first 2 years were development for AFL. If thats your line, its even more damaging. I am cutting CJ some slack. Bailey was appointed until just before the draft. CAC was in charge of list management and the delists were obvious. Also CJ had another year on contract. I doubt whether DB could make a valid assessment just on a few video tape highlights. And lets face it ....it would be a short tape! For every fourth round pick that gets a Bartram there are at least 20 duds. Do the sums and analysis and it probably no better than 1 in 15! Their loser odds in poker. Whether he gets one or more games will be dependent on what he shows like any other player. Nothing more or nothing less. Either way you will complain he was not given opportunity or we wasted a draft pick. You wont lose Jaded!!

Yes thats more the truth.

Agree Scoop.

I think DB rates different aspects of each player. Having said that I would say it those aspects of Miller which he admires more than some of the aspects of Robbo that he does not. I cant recall DB dragging Miller a number of times for indiscretions. I think Robbo is struggling.

He has had 22 games in 4 years and shown nothing. Handy depth is akin to not good enough and if your depth is not pushing for regular Top 22 particularly in a bottom side then it is good bye. If we were offered something in the 4th round then it becomes a lottery with mainly NQR recruits and possibly better the devil you know. Its hardly an endorsement. At the time of the draft DB had not seen CJ so there was no endorsement. He turns out to be a wasted pick (and a F/S one at that) then he was no good.....period. And that is not Daniher's fault. He had just less than three years under ND and it would have been bit harsh to have cut him after two years as he was not bog awful. ND did not finish the year laast year and your estimation of his market value makes him a no issue for the draft. He just has not kicked on and the issues and blame are CJ's. If only ND gave Ferg more opportunity he would be a better player.

Bailey wont force those changes. Each player must take responsibility to put their "head over the ball, pressure, tackling, chasing, blocking etc". And as Bailey is starting to do... holding accountable and weeding out those who will not follow those rules. CC has said round 6 they will start formally cutting the chaff from the key playing list. You have to get it into your head that DB's gameplan does not rule that you handball to a stationery object no matter how much ignorant critics want to paint it that way. And by the way proper use of handball skillfully does not involve "get out" options it means within the confines of the game plan using the ball to best and often first option of a moving (note that word moving) teammate. As you have seen when you dish off to a stationery player then they have to be Houdini to get out of trouble. Thats not the game plan thats the lack of skill in execution by the players in execution and being able to think under pressure when they have and dont have the ball. The problem with a get out option being a 30 to 40 metre kick is that there is just as much issue of accuracy as a handball with a broader path of error and control that leads to turnover without progressing the ball and typically to a stationery player. Back where we started from. Done properly where all players commit and follow the instructions, then Cam Bruce's objective is achieved. And no Bruce's comments are an indictment on the playing group as a whole not the Coach as it is clear from Bruce's comments as a senior player and member of the leadership group that: 1. DB has communicated what has to be achieved to the players and the many of the players know what to achieve. 2. The players know they are not achieving and realise they have to work harder to achieve the set objective(s). I think it endorses DB's capacity as a communicator and is highlighting those players who are not up to the task at hand. There is a real challenge of character for the players to step up not just for the team but for themselves. If a player does not want to cut it here then it wont be any easier at any other better performing club and you wont be treasured recruit if you could not cut at a lowly rung Club. And before you say you despise something it might be better to try and understand it first otherwise it becomes illuminating about you and not the issue at hand. And didn't you think WCE would struggle losing two players who could have both been revered as the greatest players at their Club's history? And does it not show that you need to have the requisite skill to execute any game plan? WCE were always going to struggle this year given the loss of players and the destruction of culture. But that not the game plan. BTW, if it gets any worse should they revert to "Pagan's Paddock"?

I think you are wrong. How can you develop your list when you do not adhere to game plan in the first place? So what's the game plan you would put forward? Especially given that through retirement and natural attrition there will 6 to 9 players leaving the list some of whom at the start of the year would have been "best 22".

Matter dealt with Vibes.

There is no sentiment but I found your reference to Neitz as "old rubber chest" disrespectful and in poor taste. But dont let me stop you sinking the boots in when a bloke is down. Cheap shots like that are unnecessary.

I find the cheap criticisms and insulting slurs about a player of the stature and service of David Neitz rather pathetic from posters who are allegedly supporters. It says more about the posters than the target.

Yes if I believed that I could identify with reasonable assurance another player with the assessed quality of Cheney or McNamara. I think the issues the CJ has are his issues not any present or past coach and I dont believe he will make it as a great player.....certainly not at St Kilda!

No. Its not our ground any more than its theirs. Relax. Ski season approaching.

If the club are worried about that with CJ then they should cut or trade anyone off the list. This might explain but not justify why we kept players like Yze. If two coaches dont pick him as best 22 week in and week out and they fear he will be a great player then there is a huge disconnect in logic. I was a huge fan of his father Alan who unfortunately had many of the attributes that CJ does not have and lacks to be an AFL footballer. I dont think MFC rates him too highly at all and his season is on the line. I would have thought the MFC footy committee had a pretty good assessment of CJ's capabilities enough to have to charity him 3 or 4 AFL games over other players.

Jaded, The truth is he struggles to get 4 possessions and shows the same characteristics as bunny in the car headlights at AFL level. In his 22 games at AFL level he has underwhelm and has made some fundamental errors reflecting confidence and belief that only he like other footballers can address. MFC cant afford to carry someone at AFL level who after 22 games in 4 seasons has yet to show anything that he belong. He deserves the opportunities that he has earned like any other player. So what was the trade for him? If it was better than a 3rd rounder we may rue not taking advantage of that deal. Its telling that after 4 years as a much vaulted FS selection that he is there to cover injuries. Valuable types those players. Dime a dozen. If you think CJ's woes are the fault of the previous coach he wont get any sympathy from DB. I guess you would put CJ in with Robbo in your rose coloured bag. How are they going against Bruce ATM?

I dont think Holland is a natural answer against gorillas unless they want to wrestle in the square. Holland is immobile and cannot compete with bigger players on the lead like Gehrig. And Gehrig at this stage of his career is not fast! The battle between Carroll or Holland for the FB role is six of one, half a dozen of the other. I dont see it as more than a band aid solution that possibly want even stop the flow. IMO, Holland would have had little impact on Hawkins. If anything, Holland might pinch hit up forward. He will have his good days and his bad days there but I dont see him as inclusion that provides for a winning team. Maccas, Holland was terrible that day but did unwisely played injured that day. That game was 4 years ago and there have been more recent examples where his output had been better.

Like anyone is? I doubt Bell is in the gun for a trade. Form and fitness depending, I think he would be the type you retain.

We have just appointed Paul McNamee to the CEO. Why would we want someone back who was sacked from his old position at MFC and oversaw the salary cap debacle that still costs MFC today? Furthermore, he oversaw a similar stuff up at Freo where for the luck of God and the AFL they did not get pinged for. Where MFC today has a need to change the culture, here is a CEO that has overseen a truly mediocre culture where a talented list has underperformed and its strewn with players who are difficult to manage on and off field. He has achieved very little at Freo. No wonder Eddie overlooked Schwab when he was looking for CEO prior to Schwab heading west.

Well one is a midfielder and the other a HBF/Half forward and .....

For most other teams having an opposition CHF pick cheap possessions on the wing is a win to them. I would gladly have Pavlich/ Riewoldt/ Lucas scratching kicks up in no mans land than do so in F50. If Miller cant make a bigger impact in the F50 he will struggle. He does not make much impact playing CHF on the wing. I recognise he is trying hard and good on him for it. But you do him no favours painting him to be what he is not. Miller had one good year at CHF and it lit alot of supporters flames that we had a CHF in the making. He has routinely underwhelmed at CHF since that first year and every lame and soft excuse has been used bar global warming why this is the case. The truth is he is a limited footballer who has good leadership traits in a side bereft of any. A further truth is that ND played him possibly too often. Once MFC leadership potential in other players matures, Miller will struggle to consistently hold a spot. And Maurie is right its got nothing to do within the context of aggression.

Correct Jerry.

Particularly in defence where you neutralise or beat your opponent. You can also be ineffectual and invisible but still have 30 to 35 stats in todays game. Its not the significant yardstick for performance it used to be.

No. But the loss of speed should not be not attributable to age. Given his talents and MFC's weakness I dont see the benefit in running him at Sandy