Rhino Richards

Absolutely. Book him in. Underrated player at the moment.

Whether players are developing or not, we have a greater depth of options in defence which we have had for at least 15 years. No one is claiming we have proven players. But posters are recognising the capabilities of Warnock, Frawley, Grimes and Garland. Why wouldn't you herald the emergence and the form to date of that quartet. Add in Rivers, MacDonald, Bennell, Martin.....and MFC's defensive potential is the greatest its been for a long time.

In: Garland Out: Cheney for a better backline.

There list is promising....their coach is not. If they perform poorly in 2010, Harvey wont last the year.

I have just deleted some posts and warned a couple of posters on player abuse. Tread carefully guys in this subject. If you have not got something constructive to say about Lovett, dont bother saying it.

I have that book too and recall the residential zones. Growing up I lived across the road from one of the zones and wanted to live at my best mates place at the time to qualify. The issue with the country zones is that the allocation lines were split rather aribrtarily and there were some clubs like Fitzroy that complained that their recruiting zone was populated by relatively weaker competitions and a weaker source of talent. And for clubs like Carlton with the Bendigo/Sandhurst region that once more the mines were producing gold in quality footballers. Interesting report as Wells I think in 1972 went into the centre and was pipped by Len Thompson for the B'low. Keenan developed, Callery was a good pick up but our forward line was solid but lacklustre with no prime goal kicking targets. Our defence solid. I think Biffin went full back too in 1971. Molley struggled after his first season if I recall correctly. Dillon post knee injury was never the same and Parke was consistently inconsistent but a good mark. Overall take out Wells, Alves, Keenan, Hardeman, Keenan and battlers like Davis, Sullivan the cream of talent was spread a little thin. Havent we seen that over the years?

Given that Meesen and PJ are in their final years, both are injured, both are not AFL standard. IMO I reckon both of them are doubtful starters for 2011. I think there might be other messages there for Jamar and I would be surprised unless if at years end Jamar is LT injured that we cut all three from our ranks unless we can recruit another AFL ready ruckman. He is an exciting prospect but one of his biggest challenges will be the hyperbolic expectations on him. He is still just a promising kids. I look forward to how he develops.

In 2004, White was the AA ruckman and when fit had been a key element with Scott Thompson in propelling MFC to ladder top 2/3rd trhough that season.Both got injuries and MFC sunk like a stone. White had done all that on his own with no backup as Jolly got injured earlier in the year. When he returned, Jolly cracked the sads about lack of opportunity and when he did have a chance to play played poorly, so poorly in fact that MFC dropped him and took a very green Jamar into the EF. At season's end Jolly wanted OUT. He wanted to be a No1 ruckman and has taken him three years to get there. When he left MFC he was much inferior ruckman to what he is now. He has been good for the past three years. We all know the centre line rule came in prior to 2005 and the role of the ruckman changed greatly Feel free to grumble but make sure you have the facts.

Great reports and photos thanks to all involved who went. Glad to hear the infusive comments about Trengove, Scully, Jurrah (Bail was on him??? that seems an odd match up), Bennell and Frawley. I am concerned that Petterd cannot use the ball better this year even though it is early days because he has an uncanny knack of winning it. Frustrating.

Quite right HT.

Good summary and I agree about the AFL TOC. Schimma was better than Greig. Yes there are many of those memories. I remember at VFL Park on a day when a player actually played and was responsible for a direct opponent when Flower played on Ken Fletcher a quick skilful 200 game Essendon wingman (dad of Dustin) who had Big V honours around that stage. Time and time again in direct contests for an open ball, Flower outfoxed, outskilled and dumbfounded Fletcher that he was humilated as the game wore on and Flower played another skilful manoeuvre on him. As someone else said sublime. We have had some good players since who can all point to a great year here and there, But there was no one , no one in Flowers class since 1987. Had Flower played for MFC from 1953 and not 1973, we would be ushering his name in the same league as Barassi and Smith.

Hit the nail on the head Graz. Pavlich, Brown, Black, S.Johnson, Riewoldt, Hayes, Cooney just to name a few..... Did you actually see Flower play? Flower could play and dominate positions from FF to CHB including the midfield. Strong in the air and exquisite on the ground and fast and agile. Not as fast as Davey over 30 metres but as deft of touch and balance. Davey is predominantly a left foot kick with distances of up to 50 metres. Flower could kick either foot and snagged goals up to 60 metres. He was also a terrific snap for goal as well. Flower could dominate games for four quarters and do so in some of the most awful MFC sides. Both Davey and Flower have played a dog awful sides (Flower for longer) but where Flower shone we have seen bits and pieces of Davey's brilliance. He is not in Flower's vicinity but 4 to 5 year top line years would put him up with near the Lyons, Vineys , Alan Johnsons, Neitz etc. Lyon is not in Flowers ball park either. A very good player and captain but his best years were cruelled by back injury. And no where near as strong overhead as Flower was

The reality is that Flower was good player in his first year in 1973. He started becoming an awesome player from 1974 onwards and continued until his retirement 13 years later. Davey has not been in Flowers orbit to date. He's a good player but he is going to have to be something special to sit alongside Flower. Outstanding if he does. But it will be no disgrace if he doesn't. I'd like to think there will be others on our list that will emulate the performance of FLower. Make that hope.

I am not sure it is. But I still think they are soo important even this year. 2010 is nothing if it is not part of our future. Yes. Who knows what Jurrah will be? He will either be something special or he might be a small period wonder. Grimes is could also be included. If he is better than Scully and Trengove and they are the fulfillment of their potential then we will have ourselves a side.

Agree There has been no one of Flower's quality since he retired in 1987. A few contenders but nowhere near the all round quality that Flower possessed

I still think every day they are in an MFC jumper (for the next 10 years at least!) is important. Their development is as important as what they deliver in a few years. Its one and the same thing. We allegedly dogged a number of games last year to get them. How important are they again? They are vital. FWIW, you could have also included Watts. But I think Scully and Trengove are key to our blue print of success.

What would former a AFL captain, premiership player, Coleman Medallist with 270 games know about AFL? Fancy the cheek of him. Unbelievable. I did not hear the interview but I can understand how people rate the importance of Scully and Trengove. Maurie is absolutely spot on. If MFC is going to successfully challenge for a flag in a couple of years time then Scully and Trengove are going to have to be champions and play like that where it counts most... in the guts. If either or both are just average players then it makes the already difficult path to a flag so much much further away. They have to be better than any "champion" we have produced in the last 15 years. Davey is a definitely a required player and is an important part of the list. Is he the most important player? No. Davey is a classy finisher who provides a crucial skill level based on the hard work of others. I have not seen him break open games and dominate like champions in other Clubs. And until I see Davey show he can perform in September then he is not at the top level. And Lloyd's choice of Trengove and Scully reflects where we really are. No actual stars/champions but loads of potential stars. I look forward to a number of them making it particularly Scully and Trengove

Great stuff. The only site ahead of us is Big Footy which is generalist. The others are AFL "official" sites or corporate owned footytipping sites. I cant believe there are two supporter sites for the Tigers.

Given the lack of substantive evidence on Watts form, its all speculation. Whether you criticise him or eulogise him, what its actually based? Random titbits of information that represent no significant basis for assessment. There is alot of hope and expectation on him. Some of its unrealistic at this stage of his career. And we hope but dont know if he is going to be the next big thing for MFC up forward. Lets see just what he delivers.

Agree. About as devastating as if you said 12 months ago, Brock McLean was to leave MFC. A short term blip but the Club's future does not just revolve around Davey. He is a cog but its not like Pavlich leaving Freo, Judd leaving Carlton, Brown leaving Brisbane and Hodge/ Buddy leaving Hawthorn.

Absolutely agree. Just another hollow tournament. Shane Warne might be right that ODI may be restricted to once every four years. I think ODIs series of more than 3 games in Australia are too many and TV and live spectators are voting with their feet (or remotes). Agree. Australia has a commitment to play the major nations at Test Cricket on an agreed rotating basis. It was not too long ago when India was rarely touring Australia because of supposed lack of interest. Fancy that. It all goes in cycles. FWIW, I think the scheduling for this summer with two 3 match Test Series was right. A couple of T20s ...fine. But too many ODIs against tired beaten oppositions should be a lesson. Next year will be a big summer against the Poms. ACB are rightly promoting it now.

Not surprised at all. And there is nothing personal at all in this. The only statements made about Watts to date have been founded on pure speculation in absence of the facts. And just because such behaviour follows a No 1 pick or indeed any other pick does not mean we should accept or condone it.

The only criticism of Watts to date has been speculation similar to what you have shown. And some of the speculation has lead poster to draw the most amazing conclusions about a player. In the absence of actual evidence of his playing form, Watts deserves neither protection nor the unwarranted criticism. Lets support or judge Watts on what he actually shows. He is going to get alot of attention by supporters and rightly so but the penchant for some to delve into make believe in absence of factual information is ridiculous

We have played two of the bottom teams in the competition. The West Indies actually show for the first time in about 15 years that they are putting together some reasonable cricketers behind Gayle. Go on them. Cricket needs the calypso nature. Pakistan despite having a couple of promising youngster, Mohammed Asif and Yousuf as a batsman were a rabble from the 3rd day of the Sydney Test onwards. I could not think of a more uninteresting outfit to see. Batsman who cant build an innings, cant run between wickets, cant field at all and a keeper that cant catch. And that just the problems on the field. Australians love their cricket. They love competition and a fight to win. Despite a couple of spirited sessions, Australia has not been fully challenged. But that should not take anything away from some of the great performers this summer. Spectators are not that stupid (well the ones that dont run on the ground). The Pakistan ODI games were very predictable with some ordinary performances from a team that had lost what little mojo they started the tour with. I sometimes think ODI has suffered from too many meaningless and forgetable ODI games over so many years. The format is predictable and tired. T20 has only magnified the shortcomings. A triangle series would not help. Could you think of anything more boring than WI vs Pakis? As a lover of Test cricket, I still see a place for ODI and T20. However all 3 forms must be carefully managed to ensure no spectator fatigue. Personally I think T20 is a great way to attract supporters of Test cricket in the longer term who would not otherwise have made the transition directly.

Give him a break. Last year was a skinny kid with no pre season, limited training and overwhelming expectations. And I would not read too much into the parrotting by posters of an off the cuff comment in the quiet season about Watts. An 18yo footballer cops a spray at training....No kidding. And the knives are out for him. Take a chill pill and stop making a mountain out of nothing.