Machsy

Last year in his first season, Chad Wingard, (a player that Toumpas has been frequently compared to pre-draft, although I don't necessarily agree) statistically had:

- 5 games with only 6 disposals

- 9 games with 11 or less disposals

- 16 games with 16 or less disposals

He really didn't set the world on fire, and I'd say some of his games were very average.

He also wasn't coming off surgery on both hips.

But look at him now.

It really will be a great surprise if he is not All Australian.

Hope so

It does matter, captains are leaders as far as footy goes - usually men.

Viney, Hogan and Jones are men... Trengove is not a man.

I don't know, maybe it would be easier if I just kept bumping Kingding Alings Jones for captain thread to drill the point around here.

Sorry mate, Hogan & Viney are not men.

Especially next to Trengove.

Hard to take you seriously when you make those claims.

Blease and Strauss should be getting gigs ahead of Pederson and Dunn because Pederson and Dunn are not part of our future.

Dunn is a turnover king and Pederson a spud.

We need to at least see if Strauss is up to AFL, we know Blease is, he is just inconsistent.

Blease in the VFL can be explained, he'll be a demon next year... But Strauss we need to see more of.

No way that Strauss and Blease are interchangeable with Dunn & Pedersen.

Different roles completely.

Not sure I agree with PJ's assessment that would seem to assess all those with "red & blue in their veins" as being, and I'm paraphrasing, spuds.CC took the fall here. The same guy is passionate, enthusiastic and capable. Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

That's not what PJ said. He addressed our criteria for filling positions.

Having "red and blue blood" should be irrelevant.

It's about getting the best people for the positions that need to be filled.

In business, there is no allegiance based in colours.

Football has been a business for a long time now; it's about time MFC started treating it like that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_of_the_Flies

Best way to describe the place at the moment, kids running the show, holding the club to ransom, cliques, self-preservation et al.

Thought you were referring to this forum after a loss.

Christ, it's unbearable.

Another thread that'll be hilariously bumped in a couple of years...

Agree with you totally,don't foget Greg Healy( useless as t.ts on a bull). I copped plenty of criticisms in the past for making those suggestions,once again WELL DONE. Craig can also take a flying leap.

So you should have.

It's just as poorly thought-out when someone else writes it.

I think part of that is that Dunn takes the 3rd of 4th best forward, leaving the better ones to players with a lot less experience and development.

He's anonymous.

But if it theoretically has that much value, they'll have to give up just as much to get pick 1 from us.

It doesn't add up, unless we trade like Freo in the 2000s.

I don't agree that they need another KPF, especially one in nappies.

Siegfried ?

It's very difficult not to say "Roy."

Barney Kaufman ?

Roger Rabbit?

I potted him. And he has been an abject failure. Anyone who thinks they're getting bang for their buck from this draft pick number 2 is border-line certifiable.

But I also remember the talented junior and first year player I saw. Which is why his present poor movement, lack of instinct, lack of initiative, lack of aggression, lack of class, etc. is one of the greatest mysteries I've seen in football. And yes, everyone has an opinion as to why.

There won't be a supporter in the country who doesn't want him to be the player we envisaged. He's one of the reasons we're as crud as we are.

Nathan Jones?

What makes you think GWS would want pick 1 so badly that they'd give up Adams to move up 1 spot in the draft?

I think it's madness.

GWS are shopping pick 1 around to other clubs in the assumption they'll get it.

They don't want it that badly.

It has much more value in trade to other clubs.

And Adams will get them more than just bumping a pick up by 1 spot in the draft.

It's just so unrealistic.

"Thankless" task??

You must get very frustrated at the packaging in supermarkets and have yet to master anything cryptic!! Sometimes a mis spell is by design (get it?)

Back to the discussion. If the club cannot get anyone of value with a PP or pick two, go back to the draft and rely on the new development program to develop our youth. Also place faith in the new (experienced) coach.

The club is not a charity or in the business of making other clubs stronger short term or long term.

Your hypothetical outlines your stupidity IMO.

Well since this thread is based solely on that hypothetical, maybe intellectual lightweights like yourself should give it a wide berth.

I'm sure you can find some crayons somewhere that should provide you with entertainment better suited to you.

The big thing that makes me wanna take boyd is that if Hogan up and leaves for the west at some stage we could cover the loss, my issue however is that we may get huge offers for boyd,

what if Brisbane offered Rich and Hanley?

Like Buddy is desperate to get back to WA? Taylor?

Dangerfield and Boak to VIC? Gaff, Shuey?

Josh Kennedy was from WA and was desperate to stay at Carlton, instead of going back to Perth.

Get decent players around them, pay them what they are worth, and they will stay.

Even if he goes, they have to trade with us and we'd be able to demand a hell of a lot.

Stupid post. Hypothetically speaking all the players named by you are not worth a top 10 pick.

Just to point out your stupidity more, Gold Coast are not flush with tall forwards, and GWS could be included in a multi club deal.

You know what's stupid?

Not understanding what a hypothetical is.

You know what's more stupid?

Not being able to spell "demonstrative."

Really, I was just interested in generating some discussion to see what the consensus was on what we'd get.

Part of my motive was to also "demonstrate" my belief that we may wish to trade it for mature midfielders, but we are unlikely to get what some of us may think is "fair value" for a number 1 pick, i.e. a player of the ilk of Pendlebury.

Feel free to add to the discussion like an adult.

I'd consider Sidebottom and a pick, but I'd really prefer a better leader.

Sidebottom comes across as a follower to me.

I think if we are looking at a deal like that, the Lions, Bulldogs, St Kilda and Carlton will offer a bit more to trump that.

I honestly don't think we'll ever get an off of Pendlebury, Griffen, Fyfe or Marc Murphy.

Best we can hope for is a Swan or Beams (star with serious issues), or a second tier player like a Rockliff, Rich, Gibbs, Yarran, David Armitage, Jack Steven, plus serious change.

Tom Liberatore is no chance, since he seems a legit star in the making, and is a father-son.

Really, the bulldogs don't have much at all that they'd consider trading, and nothing mature.

I'd think about Jack MacRae, but you'd need at least a 2nd round pick to go with him.

Freo have a lot more assets to trade, but if want at least Mundy.

trade pick on to gold coast for david swallow and first round pick or to GWS for taylor adams and pick 2 or to fremantle for michael barlow

I can't see GWS or the Suns being too interested in getting Boyd.

Both are well stocked with forwards, and won't give up the farm.

We should be aiming to deal with teams that are desperate for a KPF so we can create a bidding war and get over the odds.

I don't think Barlow is worth pick 1.

I want to pose a hypothetical.

Assume:

- we are to receive a priority pick;

- it will be pick 1 (giving us picks 1 and 3);

- we are going to trade pick 1 as we do not want Boyd;

- and he has been unanimously rated as clear number 1.

Who do we trade it to?

Who is it worth the most to?

What player/players should we target in a trade?

What sort of value should we expect to get back for the rights to Boyd?

Personally, I think it's probably between the Bulldogs and Brisbane, with Fremantle as a smoky to get involved.

I'd go to Brisbane and demand Rockliff plus maybe Green or Karnezis.

Any other suggestions?

I'm glad Roos already recognises the value in Trengove.

I wait with bated breath for him to prove wrong all the fools that have potted him.

His performance has been disappointing the last 2 seasons, but those who wrote him off as a consummate failure are gravely mistaken.

Great thread.

Love the topic, Cudi.

I find this stuff fascinating, and will endeavour to contribute where I can.

Can I ask what you are studying?

(If you said, I missed it)

I don't want Dustin Martin at my club.

He's a friggin idiot.

'Deserving' something has nothing to do with precedent... would you argue that thieves should have their hands cut off, just because the precedent is there from medieval times?

If we were still in the old system, we would have earned draft assistance... but we're in a new system, so we haven't. It's up to the AFL.

I don't agree with the term "deserving", but it's what the OP asks.

But we deserve a priority pick.

That's not indisputable fact, it's my opinion.

If you don't like it, you can jump in the lake.

So... Based on past precedent, do we deserve draft assistance?

YES.