Lil_red_fire_engine

I will rate his decision making and disposal once he has a full preseason and can run out more than a third of a game with the manic style he plays.

I don't profess to be an expert but I found Brayshaw on two viewings during the championships as underwhelming for a pick that high. Aside from knowing how to win the ball I could not see any elite quality. Can kick both sides but a lot of times those kicks were just a belt forward rather than quality disposal. Also appeared to lack pace and I believe I read had a low contested ball count. If we do have pick 2 and 3 and we keep both (which I doubt) I would be hoping for a Petracca/Laverde double. Both are good size, have speed out of the contest (which neither appeared to mind) and have a bit of x factor about them. A Tyson type trade that allowed us to land Laverde in the mid to back end of the first round if we thought would still be there would be the best outcome.

Someone confirm but even if we have agreed to part ways you cannot formally delist someone until post season. I expect his decision to discuss with his manager in the next 10 days would be to fit with that timing. If he changes his mind I expect we would have control of this and if he chose to go back to WA we would have opportunity to trade to make that happen. Taking Clark on face value I would think he will be at MFC unless he is home in WA. Although he has changed his mind on where he wants to be before.

This thread in most part is seriously pathetic. All three give their all, are hard at it and will have cost us close to nothing. This is more than can be said for others that will be gone at seasons end. Worst case they are a lot better depth than we have now and will set the right precedent in effort. Best case they seriously improve with another pre-season under decent development. For those that quote on re-signing these will cost us a Miles or Laidler someone have a look at the % of players drafted after 70 that play an AFL game. Then consider we are probably already going to cull 6 or 7. Congrats to 3 blokes that work hard and hit hard, I hope they make the best of their opportunity.

I love how my disagreement with your view is seen as a refusal to review. On one hand you are saying its the game plan. On the other hand you're saying you don't think anyone outside the club could know the game plan. Then you're stating 4 sides have changed their game plan? Then you pull one minute of play which was probably the most perfect play of any side this year and decide that is the one time we have tried to attack? We have tried it plenty we are just not capable of executing anything close to that skills. We have won the contested ball count on many occasions because that is about intent. We have kept most teams to low scores because defensively that is about intent. We cannot attack because that requires greater thought, decision making and execution. It also requires a decent bailout option if you can't do the other elements to their best all the time. Richmond, West Coast, Carlton and Adelaide have not changed their game style they are just executing better what they were trying to do earlier. As you execute better confidence grows, as it grows so does trust with team mates and you back your instinct in where you run and when you execute. Its a vicious cycle that goes both ways. In the case of Carlton and Adelaide it has not surprisingly coincided with the improved performance of Walker and Waite. To play any style of game particularly an attacking one you need players who have the skills to carry it out and then confidence and trust in your team mates to run hard and execute first options. These are our issues and they will impact the current game style and a more attacking game style even more so.

Putting pick 2 up for trade does not mean you are giving it away. Nor does it mean you are scared off by our previous mistakes. You see what is available and you evaluate whether it is better than the player you would likely pick up. The Tyson trade is a great example of that.

I don't see scoring less than 10 goals a game a nightmare but I did find leaking 120 points a year last year as disastrous. There is nothing wrong with the game plan. We can't execute skills or decisions forward of centre and if we did we have neither of the two main targets you would have hoped to be there to kick to. He will tinker with the game plan but if he believes in the way to win a flag is what he is progressing with he will more likely find the players that fit what he needs rather than vice versa.

Players that can run, kick and make decisions. Don't care whether we trade or draft as long they can do these 3 things.

Having an Essendon supporting wife I watch a lot of Essendon. He is possibly more frustrating than any player at Melbourne and I would not take him for free. He appears hard and appears classy but is neither, makes appalling errors and spends half the match when not turning over the ball falling over or running on the spot.

My view is Toumpas has shown alot more than O'Rourke and is the type of player that takes time. He is not a maniac at the ball but he is far from soft. People shouldn't discount the impact of double hip surgery on Jimmy's first two years and I think he will make great strides next year with another full pre-season.

I wonder whether those wanting us to punt on O'Rourke what their thoughts are on Toumpas.

Which is exactly why I would look for the right trade if available and trade to the back end of the first round if required. I think you still have a good chance of landing a player you want.

6. Jetta 5. Tyson 4. Gawn 3. N Jones 2. Howe 1. Michie

I think there is a difference between what we hoped and what we expected Jack. I thought we would win 6 and hoped for 8 and that was before Clark, Hogan and Trengove missed the whole year. I thought we would get smacked by all the mature sides and would drop off end of year as young bodies tired. I don't think we have been too far off. The frustration and angst I believe from most has been how close we have come in so many more games and how much better it could have looked.

I was appalled yesterday but its the same players making the same skill errors they made last year (Riley and Vince aside who had a couple of shockers). I would hope they would improve but if not they will be moved on and hopefully better decisions will be made with what is brought in and how they are developed. By getting ahead I mean the level of our improvement this year and references that we are not any better. We are a lot better, just coming from very far back.

There is nothing wrong with the game plan. It is the woeful state of a list that can't execute the basic skills to employ it or any other game plan. I expect if we had our two primary key targets we could at least bail out long to Clark and Hogan but since they played zero games between them thats not the option. Any one that thinks we haven't improved is kidding themselves but unfortunately we have too many NQR's on our list to carry. No losses over 100 points (although that could change this weekend) and 7 losses where we have led in the last quarter is testament to that but there is another major cull and some correct decisions required at end of year to get us moving forward. The weekend was appalling but I think some people here seriously got ahead of themselves.

Players that can run that have class please ( I feel I have said this before).

MFC had 29 1%ers. 15 of them were T-Mac. What an embarrassment that one player can have more than half our total.

He runs hard and tries hard but turns it over more often than not. A lot of times today I found between opponents when he pushed back rather than actually accountable. I know this could have been instruction but didn;t appear to be. Jetta smashed his opponent, went hard hard all day and used the ball well. His effort is reason to have him as a backup but he needs to be out of our best 22 sooner rather than later.

6. Jetta 5. McDonald 4. N Jones 3. Howe 2. Tyson 1. Not deserving to anyone but Frawley I guess Fan, I know Bail tries but come on…..

Well that certainly settles that debate. I give up.

Higgins has the class and skills we lack but lacks run and heart in my opinion. Geary is under rated. Interesting that Higgins was dropped I wonder if you can read anything into his demotion.

What does Viney do that they can't? What does Wines lack? You could argue Macrae can do things that neither the other two can do? Statements with some back up would help your position. Again Viney is coming along great but my rose coloured glasses aren't on either.

I don't want to sound disparaging to Viney but I completely disagree. The others get more ball and are more balanced inside and outside. Viney has the better burst speed but has the least damaging disposal of the group and does most things so far on will. All will be excellent players in their own way but at this stage he is progressing well but behind the other two.

It was well known that at U18s level the team were told just to kick it to where he was. He never actually learned to hunt the ball or read the play.