I'm sick of seeing giant forwards outmark much smaller Demon defenders as Hawkins did to Carroll--12 cm smaller? on Sunday.I'm also irritated when on 4-5 occasions Geelong bombed the ball into the square, no-one marked it, but they still scored goals. There is ineptitude if that happens--the ball should be put through for a point.

In these circumstances why not play our best tall defender - clearly Ben Holland (remember last year's game v Rocca). I know he can be found out if the opponents go small on the forward line, but we have 4 interchange players--if that happens, get him off [or send him to the forward line where he tends to kick goals]

I don't care if he's in his last season--he's a capable player. He KNOWS the game. Can make decisions which I'm afraid poor old Daniel Bell can't. But in any event the availability of Holland to mark the opposition tall, would mean that chaps like Carroll, Wheatley and Bell [or Frawley]could play on sensible matchups. Sure, he looks awkward, but if he's fit I'd love to see him out there against North who at various times will have Thomson Hale or Mc Intosh on the forward line. Fancy Carroll on Hale or Mc Intosh?Or Bell on Thomson?

didn't he break his hand?

he had either a hand or back injury in the game against casey round 1 sandy. was dominating for the first half then vanished. i saw him in the stands with all the sandy gear on during the 3rd quarter of that game, apparently he's injured at the moment, not sure of the severity.

anyone know the status on benny?

He's an underrated player and we could really use him in the team atm. He needs to come back soon so that he can prime himself for another stint on A Rocca!!

I'm sick of seeing giant forwards outmark much smaller Demon defenders as Hawkins did to Carroll--12 cm smaller?

Carroll - 191cm, Hawkins - 197cm... but I see your point.

Holland if fit is a handy inclusion, particularly against the Kangas. Gives Chopper and Riv better match-ups, further frees up Miller to stay forward, and if required to go forward himself, couldn't do worse than Robbo or the skipper.

my golly--seeing them oon Sunday would convince me that there's much m more than 6cm difference.
Incidentally, do Melbourne cheat on player heights? If Meesen is more than 200cm I'm Jane Fonda!

Carroll - 191cm, Hawkins - 197cm... but I see your point.

Holland if fit is a handy inclusion, particularly against the Kangas. Gives Chopper and Riv better match-ups, further frees up Miller to stay forward, and if required to go forward himself, couldn't do worse than Robbo or the skipper.

Ben Holland is a 19-rounds solution.

I rather we look a bit further ahead with our inclusions.

Ben Holland is a 19-rounds solution.

I rather we look a bit further ahead with our inclusions.

So Jaded you reckon that we should start tanking now, by not playing the best available players? I'm not a huge Ben Holland fan, but he is clearly a better option against the gorillas than Carroll. And quite frankly, he's a better full forward option than Neitz.

ok Mate--just give me your matchups for Saturday. Who plays on the N M talls?

my golly--seeing them oon Sunday would convince me that there's much m more than 6cm difference.
Incidentally, do Melbourne cheat on player heights? If Meesen is more than 200cm I'm Jane Fonda!

So Jaded you reckon that we should start tanking now, by not playing the best available players? I'm not a huge Ben Holland fan, but he is clearly a better option against the gorillas than Carroll. And quite frankly, he's a better full forward option than Neitz.

How is not playing Holland the equivalent of tanking?

Holland is hardly going to win us matches. Yes he is a reasonable player who has a very specific role, but at the end of the day we have to develop a long-term solution.

We are not going to win the flag this year. The focus is to continue to develop our list, and playing Holland is hardly going to aid our future development.

By the way, Holland is injured as far as I know.

How is not playing Holland the equivalent of tanking?

Holland is hardly going to win us matches. Yes he is a reasonable player who has a very specific role, but at the end of the day we have to develop a long-term solution.

We are not going to win the flag this year. The focus is to continue to develop our list, and playing Holland is hardly going to aid our future development.

By the way, Holland is injured as far as I know.

If Holland is the best credentialled player on our list to handle a particular player, of course it's going to improve our chances of winning a game. Who do you have in mind as someone who can handle the gorillas?

If Holland is the best credentialled player on our list to handle a particular player, of course it's going to improve our chances of winning a game. Who do you have in mind as someone who can handle the gorillas?

There aren't many gorillas left in the game who are also as slow as Ben Holland.

Better to play a shorter defender who can keep up on the lead, than a giant who can't keep up.

As much as Holland can fill a role, he is also a liability. If his match-up doesn't work, he is left to warm the bench. Since Neita is not going to be dropped in favour of Holland, nor will Robbo or PJ or White, it is a huge risk playing Holland when we are already so one-paced.

Can you imagine a less functional forwardline than one containing all the speed and agility of Neita and Holland and all the defensive nous of Robbo? Christ!

i would be really [censored] off if Holland was put into the team.

sure he would probably make us more competitive, HOWEVER, this is probably his last year of afl footy. we need to find players of the future who can play the big forwards in seasons to come! people should have perspective and realize we aren't making finals this year.

Therefore, the only good that can come from this season is developing for the future.

players i'd like to see play atleast 12 games this season:

- James Frawley

- Stefan Martin

- Colin Garland

- Ricky Pettard

Players i'd like to see play atleast 5 games this season:

- Kyle Cheney

- Tom McNamara

This is our defence of the future, NOT Holland and Whelan who are retiring at years end.

this year= Develop, develop, develop

Holland has no place in any football side in 2008.

Sure, Carroll gave away some height to Hawkins, but 3 of his goals should never have happened. Height had nothing to do with the 3 goals he managed to get on the goal line.

Sure, Carroll gave away some height to Hawkins, but 3 of his goals should never have happened. Height had nothing to do with the 3 goals he managed to get on the goal line.

A player with a bit more height down back might have punched a couple of those high balls that were crumbed goals right through for a point rather than allow them to stay in play.

well, this is absurd! If he's injured, so be it although it also seems absurd that no club publication gives us details about his status [or Petterd or several others], but if you don't5 play your best players for specific roles in Rounfd 4, what hope do we have. Incidentally--the players are of this view also. They want the best 22 picked each week, for the specific task of beating that opponent. It's another thing to be considering longer term options in the 2nd half of the season, if the season's shot. But as yet, it's not!

i would be really [censored] off if Holland was put into the team.

sure he would probably make us more competitive, HOWEVER, this is probably his last year of afl footy. we need to find players of the future who can play the big forwards in seasons to come! people should have perspective and realize we aren't making finals this year.
Therefore, the only good that can come from this season is developing for the future.

players i'd like to see play atleast 12 games this season:
- James Frawley
- Stefan Martin
- Colin Garland
- Ricky Pettard

Players i'd like to see play atleast 5 games this season:
- Kyle Cheney
- Tom McNamara

This is our defence of the future, NOT Holland and Whelan who are retiring at years end.

this year= Develop, develop, develop

Id rather Ben Holland in our forward line than David Neitz, Atleast dutchy can take a grab.

I can't believe this rubbish-holland better at ff than neitz? have u ever watched holland play there when neitz is injured? he has NO hope EVER of outmarking a no. 1 defender. Do you remember that final against the bombers a few yrs ago when neitz had a broken leg and holland played FF? No marks and No goals is my recollection of holland's stats. He is only any good when neitz has the no. 1 defender. Get off the captain he may be not playing too well but if anyone in the team is entitled to its him its his last hurrah and he should't be put under the microscope every game like this

If Holland is the best credentialled player on our list to handle a particular player, of course it's going to improve our chances of winning a game. Who do you have in mind as someone who can handle the gorillas?

I dont think Holland is a natural answer against gorillas unless they want to wrestle in the square. Holland is immobile and cannot compete with bigger players on the lead like Gehrig. And Gehrig at this stage of his career is not fast!

The battle between Carroll or Holland for the FB role is six of one, half a dozen of the other. I dont see it as more than a band aid solution that possibly want even stop the flow. IMO, Holland would have had little impact on Hawkins.

If anything, Holland might pinch hit up forward. He will have his good days and his bad days there but I dont see him as inclusion that provides for a winning team.

Maccas, Holland was terrible that day but did unwisely played injured that day. That game was 4 years ago and there have been more recent examples where his output had been better.

I dont think Holland is a natural answer against gorillas unless they want to wrestle in the square. Holland is immobile and cannot compete with bigger players on the lead like Gehrig. And Gehrig at this stage of his career is not fast!

The battle between Carroll or Holland for the FB role is six of one, half a dozen of the other. I dont see it as more than a band aid solution that possibly want even stop the flow. IMO, Holland would have had little impact on Hawkins.

If anything, Holland might pinch hit up forward. He will have his good days and his bad days there but I dont see him as inclusion that provides for a winning team.

Maccas, Holland was terrible that day but did unwisely played injured that day. That game was 4 years ago and there have been more recent examples where his output had been better.

I don't think he is the solution for a winning team either...and the way people are bagging neitz at the mo I can only imagine how everyone will jump on holland's back after a few bad games. Whilst he has a great attitude he wouldn't get a game at any other club. Yes Holland has had better days than that final but I could real off many many games where neitz has exceeded Holland's best games over the last couple of years yet that doesn't stop all his criticism albeit from morons.

We do no need his greed in our great club. He is Lazy and Greedy.

He cares more about what he can get out of football, than what he can give.

looooo$er!

Holland's cautionary tale

Caroline Wilson | April 6, 2008

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/holl...7249552448.html

Holland has no place in any football side in 2008.

Nor for that matter does old rubber chest #9

Maybe it's tanking!

Id rather Ben Holland in our forward line than David Neitz, Atleast dutchy can take a grab.

And if he doesn't mark it the ball doesn't rebound into the opposition forward 50 like it does with old rubber chest.

I find the cheap criticisms and insulting slurs about a player of the stature and service of David Neitz rather pathetic from posters who are allegedly supporters.

It says more about the posters than the target.