One season isn't really enough to know whether or not he has what it takes.

I think Rhino's point was that he could have 15 seasons and you and I still would not know whether he has what it takes, because we don't know what the criteria are and we don't get to watch him operate.

And I reckon he's right.

I think Rhino's point was that he could have 15 seasons and you and I still would not know whether he has what it takes, because we don't know what the criteria are and we don't get to watch him operate.

And I reckon he's right.

When it came to Ratten, when he arrived at the club there was an immediate and noticeable improvement in the midfield. And not just from individual performances from Thompson and alike. The way the whole midfield operated had improved and at the time I remember reading / hearing players put it down to the arrival of Ratten.

In Ratten's only year at MFC, he had a fit Scott Thompson as our No 1 midfielder and Jeff White as an AA ruck slaying the opposition. Its easy then the midfield coach looks good but in reality how would you know. Thompson went injured, White tired in R18 and MFC were crap. he had an armchair run in the midfield relative to what recent midfield coaches like Rock have had.

Ratten has had such vision at CFC he is 0 and 10.

Our midfield was the worst in the comp because aside from Junior and Jones our best midfield was not on the field.

One player (Thompson) didn't make Melb's midfield. It came from good coaching. Rock and Williams have not been able to replicate or even come close to Ratten's year much the pity.

One player (Thompson) didn't make Melb's midfield. It came from good coaching. Rock and Williams have not been able to replicate or even come close to Ratten's year much the pity.

How would you know and how can the average supporter make an informed assessment about the assistant coaches without being privy to the inside information within the MFC Footy Dept?

Neither Ratten's predecessor nor Rock or Williams have had the luxury of a performing AA ruckman and a fit and firing class player like Thompson.

Neither Rock nor Williams have had the cattle that Ratten had at his disposal.

When it came to Ratten, when he arrived at the club there was an immediate and noticeable improvement in the midfield. And not just from individual performances from Thompson and alike. The way the whole midfield operated had improved and at the time I remember reading / hearing players put it down to the arrival of Ratten.

Unless you were at training how would you know there was an immediate improvement. Most of the midfield at MFC at that time were outside midfielders who relished first use of the ball provided by a first dibs inside midfielder like Thompson and a dominant ruck in White. The impact of those two players was substantial on the whole midfield. However when Thompson was injured late in 2004 and White tired toward the end of the year, we went to water in the midfield.

And I have heard similar support for Williams and Rock from the players. I would not put too much credence in media events that are generally trained cliche roll outs.

And that's why I reckon a second year is no GREAT surprise. We know exactly nothing about how good he is. One season isn't really enough to know whether or not he has what it takes.

If we start seeing cohesiveness when the majority of the mids sare on the park, we'll sing his praises pretty damn quick. And STRAIGHT away he'll get poached by another club

Whether Williams get another year or not is determined by the people who should be in the best position to assess him. If the Foorty dept thought he was a dud then they should have dispensed with his services.

Nasher is right though. How would you know any better as supporter what Williams is like after another year?

Cohesiveness on the park should begin to occur with a return to form and fitness of players like McLean and co. If not valid questions should be asked about the Footy department and the players on our list.

Unless you were at training how would you know there was an immediate improvement.

From watching them play...

From watching them play...

Hence my point about the impact of White and Thompson.

stats can lie but our midfield, when all fit and firing, is ranked one of the best in the competition... now this has not happened for several years, so hopefully we enjoy the run of injuries the swans have had in their premiership year and see what our number 1 onball unit is able to do....

a midfield that was missing at various stages - moloney, maclean, bruce, johnstone, bartram, etc...

by having a full strength team, it may mean bell can move to the midfield, bruce and sylvia can rotate from a forward flank through the midfield, davey can have a run on a wing, etc....

we have not had these luxuries before....

if we are still discussing this later in the year, then questions need to be asked and answered....

Hence my point about the impact of White and Thompson.

Melbourne's midfield as a whole improved when Ratten came on board. White and Thompson were part of that.

That is, it was Ratten's arrival/influence that allowed the midfield to improve, in particular he also contributed to White and Thompson having very good years. Not the other way around.

Ratten was the independent variable.

There were many articles written at the time when players came out and credited Ratten with their improvement. I don't care if you take note of what is said by the players, but no one was making them say what they did.

In other words you really havent got a clue as a mere spectator from row T seat 52. Your reliance of vaguely recalled fluffy media articles only reinforces the situation. Thanks for the validation.

In other words you really havent got a clue as a mere spectator from row T seat 52.

So how do you know any better?

So how do you know any better?

Not to speak for Rhino as we all know he is more than capable of doing that for him self......

But I am not sure he is saying that at all, but that we as spectators or fans don't have any real understanding of the inner value or worth of Williams or any other individual assistant within the coaching staff and as such we must rely on those that do have that knowledge. And he was given another year to prove that worth.

We had a complete and utter clean out at the end of last year, and I would have thought (although I don't know) that if Bailey was of the opinion that Williams was useless or not going to contribute anything going forward, he would not have been included in the new coaching panel and would no longer be working for the Demons. And hopefully with a vastly better midfield to chose from he will be able to demonstrate why he is still there to those on the outer.

Just my opinion !!!

Just my opinion !!!

And a very good one at that!!

Much more eloquent than the rather rough around the edges Rhino!!

Cheers babe :D !!!

So how do you know any better?

That's my point. Unless you are in the Football department or have close access to the operations of it you would not know. And as you have clearly demonstrate the average supporter who only goes to Victorian based H & A games does not. So I dont know why you carry on with the pretentious claim of Ratten being some "independent variable". You clearly would not know

Any assessment of Ratten in reference to other appointed midfield coaches is not only uninformed but clouded by the issue of cattle each Coach had at their disposal. Ratten had two crackers of players available which that other coaches did not that made his job easier and the rest of the midfield better. White was AA and Thompson was the inside midfield star we have been crying out for. Its impossible to put a valid assessment of the part Ratten played in that. However it is illuminating that when Thompson went injured at the end of 2004 H & A and White tired and his performance drop away, MFC returned to its disappointing old ways and we were flogged in the midfield. No Ratten magic there.

.....

Just my opinion !!!

Very well put your Highness!

Much food for thought for those posters who think they can judge assistant coaches performance from the grandstand.

I guess we'll find out how good Ratten is this year.