As much as i love Neitz, and if the team of the century was named now i would have him in there, the team of th century is for those who played their best football in that period of time. When it was named, Neitz was a decent forward who had played very well at CHB but not good enough to warrant selection.

I love the guy, but he just missed out.

When was his third AA?

Only 2 - 95 at CHB and 02 at FF

Only 2 - 95 at CHB and 02 at FF

Yeah, thanks hards, that was my point.

You’ve conceded so much I can’t argue with you.

Great, now I can sleep easier at night

When Melbourne finished bottom in 1981 with a sole victory and only due to the boot of Flower, Ron Barrassi stated that he had underestimated the influence that Carl Ditterich had over the team.

Wake me up when you get to the point

Without leadership succession plans (of which, I’ve seen very little to date), I suspect the same will be said of David Neitz. It may be an endightment on the MFC that no other player has stood up the way he has, but he is the best player we have had post-1987. Is he over-rated? I have no idea who rates him. I do know he has contributed more to the club on the field than any other player post Robert Flower.

Let me tell you a story. When Lyon retired and the captaincy became a two horse race between Neitz and Schwartz, the playing group had their own ideas. The general consensus was that they would 'play for Neitz, but we'd die for Schwarter', and that's a direct quote from a since retired MFC player.

Neitz' leadership qualities are overrated by people like yourself.

Surely, you have better things to complain about.

There's a difference between complaining and explaining reality to others

i am not exactly qualified to comment about this given my lack of knowledge on most of the other older players being way before my time an all, so bear with me.

Neitz has mooved from CHB to CHF to FF and could thus be seen as a utility. Does being good in each of these positions equal a great utility, i dont know. But i think it does warrant a position on the bench.

Some people have also alluded that Nieta should take the mantle of captain frm RDB, but with man such as flower unable to take the mantle what chance does nietz have.

As someone has already suggested he should take vineys spot i think that is the most suitable swap.

It's that irritating thing where he played almost exactly half his career before the turn of the century, and almost exactly half AFTER and thus may never fit in either. I would like to see him, as our greatest goal-kicker, as a forward and in the SECOND team of the century. There's no arguement from me that he should be in at least one, and if I had to take 1900-2000 or nothing, I'd find a place for him over one or two on that list.

Yeah, thanks hards, that was my point.

yeah sorry got my numbers confused jarka...he got AA in 1995 and 2002, but played International Rules in 1998, that's where i got confused.

on the topic, i couldnt actually care less if neitz is in the team or not come to think about it, but i would like him to be capain for the 150th

Let me tell you a story. When Lyon retired and the captaincy became a two horse race between Neitz and Schwartz, the playing group had their own ideas. The general consensus was that they would 'play for Neitz, but we'd die for Schwarter', and that's a direct quote from a since retired MFC player.

out of interest, can i ask who? dont forget that viney took captaincy after lyon aswell...

out of interest, can i ask who? dont forget that viney took captaincy after lyon aswell...

Quite correct Nugget.

Neitz has become a better captaincy over the long haul. I always thought the captaincy sat awkwardly with Neitz up until 2002. But since then he has lead from the front.

IMO Neitz has been a very good and durable captain for MFC but not in the great category.

Neitz won the captaincy over Schwartz in 2000 for two reasons. Firstly as a player in 2000 and onwards Ox started to wane as a player as the toll of serious injury cam through. Secondly, Ox's volatile and unpredictable off field and sometimes on field behaviour as a player plus his known problem with vices made him an unrealiable candidate and culture issue.

The right choice was made in the Neitz/Schwarz captaincy decision

Its not even worth debating

Quite correct Nugget.

Neitz has become a better captaincy over the long haul. I always thought the captaincy sat awkwardly with Neitz up until 2002. But since then he has lead from the front.

IMO Neitz has been a very good and durable captain for MFC but not in the great category.

Neitz won the captaincy over Schwartz in 2000 for two reasons. Firstly as a player in 2000 and onwards Ox started to wane as a player as the toll of serious injury cam through. Secondly, Ox's volatile and unpredictable off field and sometimes on field behaviour as a player plus his known problem with vices made him an unrealiable candidate and culture issue.

It wasn't my opinion, merely the attitude of the players at the time. Regardless of our views theo x's personality and his playing style drew the other players toward him, they'd be prepared to 'fight in the trenches' alongside him, and from my discussions with some players Neitz has never drawn the same passion from his peers.

We've had problems with leadership over the last 5 years, that's also a fact.

The player in question has just recently retired.

I find this a fairly silly post in all honesty. Sorry. I love Neita, think he is a great leader, a real warrior for the team, and a MFC champion. But to suggest he should be included into the team of the century is crazy.

Great, now I can sleep easier at night

Wake me up when you get to the point

For someone who’s willing to be flamed, you’re showing a very thin skin.

David Neitz is not the best captain we’ve had, nor the best player, but he’s been the best player we’ve had post-1987. He’s better than you make him out to be.

I don’t think he’s in the MFC TOC.

Currently, he’s better in the side than out.

SPF 30+ might help.

Only 2 - 95 at CHB and 02 at FF

He was actually named on the bench in the 1995 AA side - Glen Jakovich got the nod at CHB. Neita had played most of the season at CHF after Schwarta did his knee (once before the season and then again in his second game back). He kicked in excess of 30 goals and finished second in the B&F to Stynes.

For someone who’s willing to be flamed, you’re showing a very thin skin.

David Neitz is not the best captain we’ve had, nor the best player, but he’s been the best player we’ve had post-1987. He’s better than you make him out to be.

I don’t think he’s in the MFC TOC.

Currently, he’s better in the side than out.

SPF 30+ might help.

I love a good flame but why should I make it easy?

I don't believe that he's the best player we've had since '87, in fact I'd rate G.Lyon, T.Viney, J.Stynes, A.Jakovich and J.White higher because of their ability to dominate their respective positions far better than Neitz.

In 2007 due to his injuries and age Neitz was virtually a liability to the team, and frankly I'm surprised you didn't pick this up, I thought you knew your footy better than that. Of his 15 games only a third of them did he manage to kick 3 goals and only once did he kick more, 4 in round 9 against the roos. It was actually embarrasing watching him hobble and limp his way to 300 games.

I don't know what you're all carrying on about - he's a certainty to make the team of the 21st century, so if you just hang about for another 95 years you will get your wish.

I don't believe that he's the best player we've had since '87, in fact I'd rate G.Lyon, T.Viney, J.Stynes, A.Jakovich and J.White higher because of their ability to dominate their respective positions far better than Neitz.

I’m sentimental about Neitz but I still believe he is the best option at fullforward for the Dees. I don’t believe anyone in or outside the team is ready to take over his role.

The players you list are all genuine contenders (excluding Jakovich) but I would still maintain that Neitz beats them all due to his ability to hold down a KPP as captain of the club.

David Neitz is the games/captains/goals record holder. There’s no fanfare or bravado. He’s not a legend of the game but he’s achieved it nonetheless. If Nathan Buckley had achieved the same we’d never hear the end of it.

He’s the first picked in the team at full-forward. I expect he will be in 2008 – beyond that, I’m hoping someone is ready to take over.

I’m sentimental about Neitz but I still believe he is the best option at fullforward for the Dees. I don’t believe anyone in or outside the team is ready to take over his role.

The players you list are all genuine contenders (excluding Jakovich) but I would still maintain that Neitz beats them all due to his ability to hold down a KPP as captain of the club.

David Neitz is the games/captains/goals record holder. There’s no fanfare or bravado. He’s not a legend of the game but he’s achieved it nonetheless. If Nathan Buckley had achieved the same we’d never hear the end of it.

He’s the first picked in the team at full-forward. I expect he will be in 2008 – beyond that, I’m hoping someone is ready to take over.

Neitz is first choice for FF simply not because he's our best player for that position but because we simply have no one else. Are you seriously trying to tell me that you believe that his efforts last year were of a good AFL level?

Jakovich (will fit) was an absolute champion and was easily much better than Neitz. He broke the record for the least number of games to a career 50 and 100 goals. Did you actually see him play live?

Neitz is first choice for FF simply not because he's our best player for that position but because we simply have no one else. Are you seriously trying to tell me that you believe that his efforts last year were of a good AFL level?

Jakovich (will fit) was an absolute champion and was easily much better than Neitz. He broke the record for the least number of games to a career 50 and 100 goals. Did you actually see him play live?

I don’t equate prodigious talent with “best”. If you’re going to talk about talent then you might as well throw Les Bamblett/Sean Charles/David Cordner into the mix. But you're right, Jakovich did achieve a lot in a very limited time at Melbourne. However, he's not the best player we've had in the last 20 years.

When David Neitz is bad he’s diabolical. I also think he shares the responsibility for Melbourne’s lack of defensive pressure in the forward line along with Robertson. But his good still outweighs his bad.

Yes, I agree 2007 wasn’t his best year. But its unfair to compare that against his entire career. He’s in his twilight and I expect 2008 will be his last.

I’m not really trying to argue with you Jarka and I do see your point. But I don’t think he is “over-rated”. I think the common opinion of him and his status in the game is about right.

I probably saw 80% of Jakovich’s games for the MFC. The one I regret missing was the infamous Gary Pert/waterbottle incident. I did listen to it on the radio at the nude beach in Noosa, though!!! Does that count?

Neitz is first choice for FF simply not because he's our best player for that position but because we simply have no one else. Are you seriously trying to tell me that you believe that his efforts last year were of a good AFL level?

Jakovich (will fit) was an absolute champion and was easily much better than Neitz. He broke the record for the least number of games to a career 50 and 100 goals. Did you actually see him play live?

I don't see how you can rate Jakovich's career over Neitz. At some point longevity must come into it, otherwise Darren Cuthbertson would be a star. I saw Jakovich's last game against Hawthorn and he had 8 til half time before he got injured. He was a sublime talent, but no "champion" in my eyes.

You can't alter a TTOTC. Neitz will have his moment in the son when other 'best ofs' are debated and named.

Neitz has made me pull my hair out over the years. From dropping chest marks, handballing to teammates in the square when he's 10 metres out, headbutting the ground, etc. I didn't call him Jethro for nothing. That said, he gets a bum wrap. History should, and I suspect will, judge him very kindly. In fact, I think he's vastly underrated over the journey. Imagine if he'd ever had a gun midfield. Overrall he's stood up and been a marvellous warrior for the red and blue.

I'd have him ahead of Viney. But I'm one who can't believe that Viney got on the bench in TTOTC ahead of Greg Wells. That's plain wrong. I can only assume it's because Wells finished his career elsewhere and Viney was top of mind having just retired.

I don’t equate prodigious talent with “best”. If you’re going to talk about talent then you might as well throw Les Bamblett/Sean Charles/David Cordner into the mix. But you're right, Jakovich did achieve a lot in a very limited time at Melbourne. However, he's not the best player we've had in the last 20 years.

When David Neitz is bad he’s diabolical. I also think he shares the responsibility for Melbourne’s lack of defensive pressure in the forward line along with Robertson. But his good still outweighs his bad.

Yes, I agree 2007 wasn’t his best year. But its unfair to compare that against his entire career. He’s in his twilight and I expect 2008 will be his last.

I’m not really trying to argue with you Jarka and I do see your point. But I don’t think he is “over-rated”. I think the common opinion of him and his status in the game is about right.

I probably saw 80% of Jakovich’s games for the MFC. The one I regret missing was the infamous Gary Pert/waterbottle incident. I did listen to it on the radio at the nude beach in Noosa, though!!! Does that count?

fatty, it's just my opinion about Neitz. He's always frustrated me greatly as a player because he can play so well and totally dominate a game for a quarter and then it seems that he'd go back into his shell and go missing for the rest of the game. I still believe that we made a mistake in making him captain, although over the last 5 years we've been completely devoid of mature leaders so he's been our only option. I also believe that our lack of key forwards since Schwartz has overstated his ability.

He will be remembered as a great MFC player however he's not a great AFL player, which alot of demon (sorry MELBOURNe fc) fans claim him to bem which is probably the source of my argument.

I don't see how you can rate Jakovich's career over Neitz. At some point longevity must come into it, otherwise Darren Cuthbertson would be a star. I saw Jakovich's last game against Hawthorn and he had 8 til half time before he got injured. He was a sublime talent, but no "champion" in my eyes.

You can't alter a TTOTC. Neitz will have his moment in the son when other 'best ofs' are debated and named.

Neitz has made me pull my hair out over the years. From dropping chest marks, handballing to teammates in the square when he's 10 metres out, headbutting the ground, etc. I didn't call him Jethro for nothing. That said, he gets a bum wrap. History should, and I suspect will, judge him very kindly. In fact, I think he's vastly underrated over the journey. Imagine if he'd ever had a gun midfield. Overrall he's stood up and been a marvellous warrior for the red and blue.

I'd have him ahead of Viney. But I'm one who can't believe that Viney got on the bench in TTOTC ahead of Greg Wells. That's plain wrong. I can only assume it's because Wells finished his career elsewhere and Viney was top of mind having just retired.

Hannabal, I'm not trying to compare their careers, I just believe that Jakovich was a better player. He was definitely more skilled, hell, alot more skilled, and when fit he influenced games in a way that Neitz could only dream of. His ability to read the play was also far superior. There's no question though that Neitz had the better career because of his longevity.

Neitz often played with a very good midfield supplying him.

Viney was the last true warrior that the club has had.

Hannabal, I'm not trying to compare their careers, I just believe that Jakovich was a better player. He was definitely more skilled, hell, alot more skilled, and when fit he influenced games in a way that Neitz could only dream of. His ability to read the play was also far superior. There's no question though that Neitz had the better career because of his longevity.

Neitz often played with a very good midfield supplying him.

Viney was the last true warrior that the club has had.

I love this stuff! I was talking to my brother the other day about something similar. There is no doubt Jako was a greater talent, and he dragged people through the gates, especially in the second half of 91 when absolutely dominated the competition. 71 goals, 14 Brownlow votes in effectively half a season. If I needed someone to play for my life, I'd take Neitz over Jako though, because at least I could be sure he'd be making every effort to stay out on the ground. The guy has played with some serious injuries (including a broken bone in his leg) and never shirked; Jako on the other hand was not highly regarded for his pain threshold. However, Schwarta would have been the best of them all - just an outstanding capacity to turn a game - his efforts over the 94 finals series are quite rightly the stuff of legend. Unfortunately, that was the last we saw of his brilliant best. I remember when he got injured late in the semi against Footscray and the journos asked Balme why he hadn't taken him off earlier - his answer - "Because I just like watching him play!" Didn't we all. He eventually came back as a smart, courageous, bullocking forward when he should be remembered for his efforts pre-knee injuries.

I don't see how you can rate Jakovich's career over Neitz. At some point longevity must come into it, otherwise Darren Cuthbertson would be a star. I saw Jakovich's last game against Hawthorn and he had 8 til half time before he got injured. He was a sublime talent, but no "champion" in my eyes.

You can't alter a TTOTC. Neitz will have his moment in the son when other 'best ofs' are debated and named.

Neitz has made me pull my hair out over the years. From dropping chest marks, handballing to teammates in the square when he's 10 metres out, headbutting the ground, etc. I didn't call him Jethro for nothing. That said, he gets a bum wrap. History should, and I suspect will, judge him very kindly. In fact, I think he's vastly underrated over the journey. Imagine if he'd ever had a gun midfield. Overrall he's stood up and been a marvellous warrior for the red and blue.

I'd have him ahead of Viney. But I'm one who can't believe that Viney got on the bench in TTOTC ahead of Greg Wells. That's plain wrong. I can only assume it's because Wells finished his career elsewhere and Viney was top of mind having just retired.

Glad someone mentioned this.As good as Viney was Greg Wells was the better player

I don't see how you can rate Jakovich's career over Neitz. At some point longevity must come into it, otherwise Darren Cuthbertson would be a star. I saw Jakovich's last game against Hawthorn and he had 8 til half time before he got injured. He was a sublime talent, but no "champion" in my eyes.

You can't alter a TTOTC. Neitz will have his moment in the son when other 'best ofs' are debated and named.

Neitz has made me pull my hair out over the years. From dropping chest marks, handballing to teammates in the square when he's 10 metres out, headbutting the ground, etc. I didn't call him Jethro for nothing. That said, he gets a bum wrap. History should, and I suspect will, judge him very kindly. In fact, I think he's vastly underrated over the journey. Imagine if he'd ever had a gun midfield. Overrall he's stood up and been a marvellous warrior for the red and blue.

I'd have him ahead of Viney. But I'm one who can't believe that Viney got on the bench in TTOTC ahead of Greg Wells. That's plain wrong. I can only assume it's because Wells finished his career elsewhere and Viney was top of mind having just retired.

Thoughtful summary of the situation H.

I agree about the Viney/Wells issue.