Who to Trade?

[Jaded No More 68,854]

Is Neaves ready to step up ?.. some other teams might already have had him blooded...but whilst not wanting to revisit all that...just wondering if anyone else thinks he could step up.

No he isn't.

Very very raw, but should be promoted to the senior list at the end of the season, especially if we trade Jamar.

He needs at least one or two more years to even be competitive on an AFL field, but he has potential.

[QueenC 74]

It all depends on who you can getbut...

........I would keep Ferguson, Jamar, Miller and Warnock. All are capable. They are not as good as the tradeables, but they can improve. Bruce, Green, White and Yze are the key to securing a CHF and a CHB.

I am not going to speculate about who should go and who should stay becuase in the end we all have our own pet perceptions of individual players importance, and our own personal bias when it comes to each of the boys that pull on the jumper or are trying to pull on the jumper each week.

There are some players that I think nearly everyone here can agree on who should, or will, probably not be on the list in 2008, but that does not necessarily involve trading them, because at this stage in their careers and taking age into account they don't hold much value (and for this terminology alone I will go on the record and say that I truly hate trade week and the way we ie the fans treat it - it is not a game of cards).

Which is why Gouga's top statement is the best I have read on this thread.

If you read through all of this thread then we have collectively managed to get rid of nearly three quarters of the list in one fair swoop. The reality is that this is simply not going to happen. Because unless we get exactly what we want or need, or at least someone better than what we are offering, and continue to have enough players to cover the depth that will be tested if we start giving away players, then there is no point.

It comes down to not trading or trading sake.

To me, we trade only to get someone(s) that will absolutely make our list better and therefore perhaps get our Premiership aspirations even closer. We don't want to trade for players that will not improve the list, or trade our current player problems for a whole new set of problems that will not help in the long term.

Of course who knows what a new coach will be able to get out of certain players on our list. That is the great unknown.

But if we legitimately think we can make a deal to get say a Matthew Pavlich, then we absolutely go for it, offering whoever we think Fremantle will accept, doing this without completely decimating the list in the process. And this covers all but the very few "untouchables", that we possess.

I guess the reality is though that players like Cameron Bruce, Brad Green and Travis Johnstone have the greater trade value than the more unpopular players that people around here just seem to want off the list (although they may add value to a certain deal), therefore if we want to get something good in return, like I said above, we are unfortunately going to have to part with one of these type players.

Of course this is just my opinion !!!

[Rogue 585]

With regards trading, most players are available if we can get the right deal for them. There's not much point trading guys who are going to be part of our next era at the Club - the McLean and Bates of the list - and there's not much point trading for another Pickett either.

If we make any meaningful trades, they need to be for players who are going to add to our flag tilts in 3-5 years time.

I would keep Ferguson, Jamar, Miller and Warnock. All are capable. They are not as good as the tradeables, but they can improve. Bruce, Green, White and Yze are the key to securing a CHF and a CHB.

Ferguson has very little room for improvement IMHO.

[Demon Disciple 12,014]

i hope that the MFC, come trading time don't trade away our early round 1 draft pick, or any other round 1 draft pick, if we were to get one through trade. In order to get a quality player through trade, which is becoming more and more impossible, we should get rid of questionable players (ie. Bruce, Green, TJ, etc....) and second round draft picks.

As much as it pains me to say it, what this year has shown is our relative low level of depth. We need to re-build. I t is stupid to think that we could go all the way next year with a 30+ old no.1 ruckman and rely on our 33 yo FF to kick the majority of our goals.

In order to contend over a number of years, we need to have a group of quality players for that period of time. Look at the lists of the Lions, Swans and Eagles during their glory years. A number of star players. Hawthorn will be at that stage soon too.

We need to start that stage now, not in another 2-3 years time when the majority of our senior decent players retire.

[45HG 1,539]

given the ever-nearing event that david neitz will depart, and the emergence of mclean, jones and co., would it thus be safe to say that the club should trade most heavily for pav or reiwoldt? if so, what types of players would these clubs want? i couldnt imagine st kilda needing a bruce type, but could see the dockers being interested in him (if his skills improve). saints also might not be interested in tj, given he's a dal santo twin and even brad green offers nothing they don't already have IMO. from a quick glance i'd have to say a trade with freo would seem more likely given the players we're discussing

[deanox 9,894]

if u want to talk about bell go to the demonland player of the year topic

my only query with anything i've read here, is that the general consensus is that we're delisting Jamar (agreed, dont get me wrong!) and possibly trading White. Who then will be our ruckman? PJ's not that good!

p.s completely agree with BrownlowBruce about Bell.. he should not be mentioned in this thread unless he's being added to the "do not touch.. ever!" list!

it was clint that brought bell into this discussion...and ashleigh, BB's comments about bell werent supporting him, he was being sarcastic because a couple of us rate him so highly...

and while ive quoted this thread, im pretty sure no one has suggested trading white this season. but jamar is gone if he doesnt do something else...

[deanox 9,894]

Ok ill use my words more carefully. Bate is a superstar.

A Red head clone of Pepples O'Keefe from the Swans.

out of interest here is a stats comparison of the two..

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_play...2&pid2=1496

thats probably not a bad comparison in the sort of player, but i think that with bates extra height he is more likely to end up in the kouta mould...

i still think your problem is the use of the word superstar. when a player has dominated for a number of years, does it every week, and wins games by himself, then he is a superstar. a kids with 25 games experience and 20 odd goals is currently a potential superstar.

[deanox 9,894]

I've noticed that deanox likes to use the number of stats that a player has when assessing their performances.

...

1) Judging a player purely by their statistics is stupid

2) Clint Bizzell is not getting the credit he deserves

you're right i do like the stats, to me they are a good indicator, the problem is that one stat never tells the story. a good example is a player can get 25 kicks but on kick 5 to advantage, or 30 hit outs and we loose the clearances. maybe i over use them, but then, they are one of the few 'facts' we have to prove a point, and they do tell you who is getting more of the ball.

maybe i've been harsh on bizzell this year, but i honestly rate bell. those stats didnt include spils, and i reckon you'd find bell is leading that by a mile. they play different roles so it is hard to compare them. bell is an accountable defender whos main job has been to shut down an opponent ie welsh or didak. bizzell seems to get the loose man gig, or at least plays a looser more unaccountable style of footy where his role is often third man up, or mopping up the mess. personally i like bells run and his decisions and disposal better than bizzell, but bizzell has often been caught with nothing to kick to (symptomatic of melbournes year). i think where i see a major difference is that to me, bizzell is on his last legs. he is getting older and will prob get a year at the end of the season if he doesnt retire. i think atm, he and rivers are playing the same role, and with rivers injured he gets a run for the mfc. there would never be a choice between bell and bizz, they play too differently. in 5 years bell will be one of our regular defenders, he has much more upside and a long career in front of him, that will hopefully include melbournes next premiership. bizzell, imo, will be gone before we have that chance to challange properly, and this is why i cant see the point in having him play ahead of a player who needs the experience.

i spose it is the same thing that BB accused me of. i am in this to win a premiership, not to carry players. bizzell had a wonderful couple of years with us after swapping from geelong but he is not a mfc favourite son, and i dont think that he will be the answer to our premiership drought at this stage of his career.

[demon946 0]

Every player over 29 years old, but Netiz

That is RIDICULOUS! Wipe everyone that is considered 'old'?! I do not get it? Age has no baring on performance and ability... Look at Robert Harvey. Age provides wisdom and experience and compliments youth. De-list players who have not been elevated to play continuous senior football I say. There is OBVIOUSLY a reason why certain players are not playing for Melbourne as yet and are still down at Sandy - despite the fact we have been poor this year, our Coach is far more qualified to make these decisions I think?! I highly doubt these Sandy players are there, solely based on age. We rave about our young guns but do they have the mental toughness to play at the elite level and reach milestones of 100+ games - are they gonna go the distance?! Have some respect for those who have done so, who have been the warriors for MFC over the years and SHOW SOME FAITH. Would you have ever thought that players like Brown and Ward would reach the above mentioned milestones at the beginning of their careers?? Well they have and it is not because they are the marquee champion players, it is because they work bloody hard and I am sure bleed red and blue. We need players like this around the club. I am a big fan of our young guns however I will never lose sight of our old school players who played with the likes of Gary Lyon, Todd Viney, David Schwarz - who understand what it takes to make it to a Grand Final, they were there in 2000, who are not to fussed about going to the solarium and how their hair looks before a game. I dunno, I say we keep some of our older players, they show heart particularly Brown and Ward. In case you haven't noticed, I am their number 1 fan! Unless they are close to being in a wheelchair, if they are performing WHO CARES IF THEY ARE 50!!! I saw no reason to drop Brown. He was doing his job and getting the ball himself! Baffled?!........

[Rogue 585]

I saw no reason to drop Brown. He was doing his job and getting the ball himself! Baffled?!........

Doesn't shut down an opponent, doesn't hurt teams on the rebound, can't kick very far, not very quick, etc.

[deanox 9,894]

a list of players sorted by age at the start of next season, assuming that the season starts on friday march 28th (which is likely if the GF is the last sat of september and we have a split round.)

33 at the start next season

Neitz, David (V+) 294 32yr 5mth 22 Jan 1975

31

Bizzell, Clint 158 30yr 11mth 28 Jun 1976

Brown, Nathan D. 136 30yr 10mth 14 Aug 1976

McDonald, James 189 30yr 8mth 5 Oct 1976

White, Jeff 243 30yr 4mth 19 Feb 1977

Holland, Ben 185 30yr 1mth 10 May 1977

30

Ward, Daniel 128 29yr 11mth 9 Jul 1977

Pickett, Byron 199 29yr 10mth 11 Aug 1977

Yze, Adem (V+) 265 29yr 9mth 21 Sep 1977

29

Robertson, Russell 196 28yr 7mth 24 Nov 1978

28

Bruce, Cameron 158 27yr 8mth 30 Sep 1979

Whelan, Matthew 128 27yr 7mth 13 Nov 1979

27

Johnstone, Travis 155 26yr 11mth 17 Jul 1980

Godfrey, Simon 99 26yr 8mth 18 Oct 1980

Carroll, Nathan 53 26yr 8mth 20 Oct 1980

Green, Brad 158 26yr 3mth 13 Mar 1981 (just)

26

Wheatley, Paul 105 26yr 2mth 12 Apr 1981

Ferguson, Ryan 41 25yr 8mth 29 Sep 1981

24

Davey, Aaron 76 24yr 10 Jun 1983

Miller, Brad 84 23yr 11mth 6 Jul 1983

Jamar, Mark 47 23yr 10mth 9 Aug 1983

Moloney, Brent 57 23yr 4mth 28 Jan 1984

23

Warnock, Matthew 4 23yr 2mth 3 Apr 1984 (just)

Johnson, Paul 21 23yr 26 Jun 1984

Rivers, Jared 64 22yr 8mth 18 Oct 1984

22

Bell, Daniel 40 22yr 2mth 13 Apr 1985

Sylvia, Colin 44 21yr 7mth 8 Nov 1985

Johnson, Christopher 16 21yr 5mth 25 Jan 1986

McLean, Brock 52 21yr 3mth 11 Mar 1986

21

Hughes, Daniel ® 0 20yr 6mth 10 Dec 1986

20

Buckley, Simon 0 20yr 2mth 18 Apr 1987

Newton, Michael 0 20yr 1mth 27 Apr 1987

Neaves, Shane ® 0 20yr 1mth 11 May 1987

Dunn, Lynden 17 20yr 1mth 14 May 1987

Bate, Matthew 25 20yr 1mth 24 May 1987

Bode, Jace ® 0 19yr 9mth 14 Sep 1987

Jones, Nathan 19 19yr 5mth 20 Jan 1988

Neville, Heath 0 19yr 4mth 2 Feb 1988

Bartram, Clint 23 19yr 4mth 16 Feb 1988

19

Garland, Colin 1 19yr 1mth 28 Apr 1988

Hayes, Daniel ® 0 18yr 11mth 13 Jul 1988

Petterd, Ricky 7 18yr 11mth 24 Jul 1988

Frawley, James 4 18yr 9mth 20 Sep 1988

Weetra, Isaac 0 18yr 3mth 27 Feb 1989

R - Rookie E - Elevated Rookie V - Veteran inside 38 V+ - Veteran outside 38

[deanox 9,894]

Neitz, David (V+) 294 32yr 5mth 22 Jan 1975

Bizzell, Clint 158 30yr 11mth 28 Jun 1976

Brown, Nathan D. 136 30yr 10mth 14 Aug 1976

McDonald, James 189 30yr 8mth 5 Oct 1976

White, Jeff 243 30yr 4mth 19 Feb 1977

Holland, Ben 185 30yr 1mth 10 May 1977

Ward, Daniel 128 29yr 11mth 9 Jul 1977

Pickett, Byron 199 29yr 10mth 11 Aug 1977

Yze, Adem (V+) 265 29yr 9mth 21 Sep 1977

Robertson, Russell 196 28yr 7mth 24 Nov 1978

of the 29 and over group,i think the biggest losses are neitz, white and robertson. robbo still has 3 years on neitz. junior is a big loss, but i believe his role can be covered by a younger player coming through. the others i think are on their last legs...

only 3 of our best 22 will be 29 or older next year (yes i know our best 22 is subjective, and some might have more or less). the point of my argument is, with good recruiting over the next 2 years (and perhaps targeted trading), this list will seriously challenge if it performs. our next ten years should be very promising with this list.

[shimmo 0]

Well what a year, to say the very least. My question in this topic is that who do we trade at the end of the year? Do we get rid of the dead wood? Keep some experience for the younger guys. Some players for mine who should depart post haste is Daniel Ward, Godfrey and Paul Johnson. I think still has something to offer.

[shimmo 0]

trade or delist?

trade???? not sure who would want them. yze, brown, godfrey.

delist, ward, brown, godfrey, jamar

In total agreeance with you condemned, ward, godfrey definately have to go, chuck in Paul Johnson as well for good measure. The untouchables at the club for mine are Bruce, Davy, Bate, N. Johnosn, McLean, and our futur lot, Pettard and frawley.

[buzzyoung 2]

not bad...I agree with most..

we need to look at White and Green...we would get value for them..

I feel for Yze...hes been good for us...people turn pretty quickly although it seems to me maybe injury has finally caught up

sylvia..although most punters love him Im not too sure..

definite trade value..

I would hate to lose another one like..jolly or armstrong

the bottom line is the players need to take a look.. its always to easy to blame the obvious person

Neale is a terrible lose to this club..maybe his coaching may not have been great but what a fantastic man...remember 5 years ago..he came out and did what not many have done for this club.. i will miss him..

[beelzebub 23,312]

i see some interestig ideas of whom is tradable here. Unfortunately some ideas fly directly in the face of logic.

You are higly unlikely to get much if indeed anything for players who are long in the tooth and /or especialy if they are now exhibiting a proneness to injuries etc.

I would have happily traded Ooze but he wont get a zack now.. Brown is on his last doggy legs.. Hollywood is on teh wrong side of 30 ..will be 31 tomorrow..happy bday..best day to have one :-)) Same for dutchy. I very much dount Godders would continue on in AFL if not at melbourne , but the has a ready made life( for a few years) at Zebby land..

The point im trying to make is its not who you may want to get rid of..its ...what can they offer anyone ?

And if we dont value some of these guys anymore...what makes anyone think someone else will ?

Players who are tradable are the Millers, the Bruces , the Johnstones, jamars, Jonhsons ( both ) the bells green etc..

In this vein... Sylvia is tradeable.. Beamer isnt..

this isnt about who I particularly want to trade...just an observation on who you COULD trade.