9 hours ago, SadDee said:

Of course that’s annoying, and shouldn’t happen.

But I can put any money on the fact that I bet the team that last due to “a bad decision” made a load of mistakes, didn’t capitalize on shots on goal which could also have made the difference.

It’s not like you look at the scores card and see 0 turn overs and 21 goals straight and no points.

It’s like us against St Kilda this year. 7.21 scorecard.

Say an umpire made a mistake on the dying minute, and was wrong and “it cost us the game”. Surely you’re not blaming the umpire when we missed 21 points….

Both make mistakes, and both are human. Just not sure why it’s only seen that umpires can cost a team a game when usually the team could have also done won it on their own merit.

Okay. I see your point. Admittedly I notice player mistakes too. In the best game ever played I bet the successful team still made mistakes. I really don't know what to make of umpiring. It's impossible for it to be perfect and often the public should just shut up and not use it as a cop out for most of their team's losses. But if a player misses a shot from the goal square or an umpire does as bad with a dreadful decision it's fair enough for me to comment - even blame both in a close loss.. For both of them I'd hope there are coaches and supervisors to iron this stuff out, especially if attitude, poor technique or strategy or bias are to blame. (Oh, and I bet no coach and few players totally dismiss their part in a loss - even if they're cursing the umpire(s) and brooding on what might have been.)

On 20/07/2025 at 08:38, titan_uranus said:

Both decisions were poor IMO but relying on umpires in a close game against Carlton’s seconds is on us, not the umpires.

Exactly.

The closest I can get to an umpiring conspiracy these days is not really a conspiracy at all; it's just a problem of human nature. Nobody wants to be screamed at in their job. As an umpire you can't avoid it. But there are different levels of being screamed at. Three seconds of moderately loud booing is very different from the violent howling of a Carlton or Collingwood crowd. Or the victim complex crying of an Essendon crowd.

I have very little doubt, for example, that whether unconsciously or consciously, the umpire that failed to pay the deliberate with a few second to go in that Adelaide game where Clarry had an all-timer did so with crowd reaction in mind.

This doesn't explain, though, absolute disasters like the Kozzie trip near the start of the year and the Clarry holding the ball on Saturday night. Even the most one-eyed supporter understands that there's nothing ambiguous about a run-down tackle with no push in the back, or an ankle tap, so there's no need for an umpire to worry about being scolded by tens of thousands of people.

Anyway, my theory, which probably doesn't bear out when you look at entire seasons or longer periods of time, is the louder and more aggressive the crowd, the more likely they are to get a 50:50 go their way. Not a nineteenth man, but maybe one tenth, or one fiftieth, of an extra player.

35 minutes ago, Go Ds said:

Okay. I see your point. Admittedly I notice player mistakes too. In the best game ever played I bet the successful team still made mistakes. I really don't know what to make of umpiring. It's impossible for it to be perfect and often the public should just shut up and not use it as a cop out for most of their team's losses. But if a player misses a shot from the goal square or an umpire does as bad with a dreadful decision it's fair enough for me to comment - even blame both in a close loss.. For both of them I'd hope there are coaches and supervisors to iron this stuff out, especially if attitude, poor technique or strategy or bias are to blame. (Oh, and I bet no coach and few players totally dismiss their part in a loss - even if they're cursing the umpire(s) and brooding on what might have been.)

Oh, sorry. I think I’ve come across in a way where I don’t think we should comment on them.. that’s not it.

I just don’t think we should solely blame them when we miss heaps and make a lot of errors etc.

Umpiring certainly gets to me to, especially when it’s a close game and it could have decided it, but I just try to think, what could we have done better?

You’re bang on though. Frustrating when they can make such an impact or decide a game off a bad call.

9 hours ago, SadDee said:

Oh, sorry. I think I’ve come across in a way where I don’t think we should comment on them.. that’s not it.

I just don’t think we should solely blame them when we miss heaps and make a lot of errors etc.

Umpiring certainly gets to me to, especially when it’s a close game and it could have decided it, but I just try to think, what could we have done better?

You’re bang on though. Frustrating when they can make such an impact or decide a game off a bad call.

Yep! In 100 minutes of play you just can't lose due to umpiring alone. Our season/season and a half drop-off is not due to umpires. Maybe we really would have won 3 more games this year and one more last, with less umpire howlers. Regardless that doesn't get us into finals or excuse much. Anyway I know the team will at least try and address our issues in September while many of 'em will feel that these two inactive Septembers shouldn't have happened.

19 hours ago, Willmoy1947 said:

You are giving an excuse of just about a whole years stuff ups by umpires

You cannot change rule interpretation on a week to week basis just to appease crowds,players or AFL ratbags including media. OR obviously results.

If you can then there is something much more serious going on here...

The thing is, Willmoy, that is exactly what does and did happen.

I think most on here aren't blaming the umpires for our woes and losses.

That problem should be firmly placed on Jack Watt's shoulders (joking)

This thread is about umpiring standards. The standard is not very good at all and adds to the frustration when our team is playing so woefully. The adjudication is incredibly inconsistent.

With the amount of money involved in the league, the fact umpires are not professional is a joke (even though Laura says the standard has never been better) - she sounds like a politician.

If I'm watching a local league game, I expect umps just do their best.

At AFL level, I expect that umpires get relegated and should be open to scrutiny if they are officiating poorly.

2 hours ago, Brownie said:

I think most on here aren't blaming the umpires for our woes and losses.

That problem should be firmly placed on Jack Watt's shoulders (joking)

This thread is about umpiring standards. The standard is not very good at all and adds to the frustration when our team is playing so woefully. The adjudication is incredibly inconsistent.

With the amount of money involved in the league, the fact umpires are not professional is a joke (even though Laura says the standard has never been better) - she sounds like a politician.

If I'm watching a local league game, I expect umps just do their best.

At AFL level, I expect that umpires get relegated and should be open to scrutiny if they are officiating poorly.

Sadly some are rewarded for officiating 'poorly' - in our view it is that but HQ may see it very differently.

On 19/07/2025 at 23:34, monoccular said:

Is data available re which umpire awards how many frees for and against which team?

One tonight stood out - won’t say which one for fears of accusations of sexism.

I'm disappointed that the mods haven't deleted this post which is horribly sexist. Or at least edited out the last 10 words which are completely unnecessary.