Let's try and pin point the actual issue.

[layzie 33,801]

On 5/29/2023 at 7:19 PM, Demon Dynasty said:

FCS Goody / FD & Leaders....Kill the super loose fold back zone inside 50 & higher!!

Gives the oppo too much room.  Allows constant switching, control & possession in their back half.  Keepings off if you like.

This gives the oppo some massive advantages...

1.  More time with the ball in hand while we run our butts off and expend energy.

2. Relatively easy exit to the half way mark most of the time under little pressure unless there's an unforced error.

3.  Easy yardage

4.  Teams who have very good or better defenders by foot are going to take advantage.  It brings VG users of the ball into play eg;  Hayden Young on Sat who on a good day can run the ball out 25 meters then hit a target 40 meters away with pinpoint passing.  The next kick is heading into our 50 or close to it!  That's two kicks!  No time to get effective numbers back.

5.  Allows too many launch kicks deep into our 50 or to leading forwards.  The latter achieved by constant switching under lowish pressure across the middle of the ground until a forward presents or a hole opens up deep for someone to lead into.

6.  If the opp is disciplined, patient and skilled, with a few hard leads they won't turn the pill over as often and shouldn't given they are not having to expend much energy to that point as they're under minor pressure.  This limits our turnover capability and takes away a major strength.

7.  Multiple medium kick switches.  Less running for them.... more for our Mids & Forwards.  Over short periods fine.  Do it over a few quarters a la Freo and it will eventually wear the mids and some forwards down until they are spent.

8.  As a result of No.7  ... even when there is a turnover....most players are so exhausted getting back towards goals and presenting etc that their kick at goals is even more compromised than usual resulting in ordinary accuracy or bad misses in front of the sticks.

This is not hindsight either.  Mentioned this prior to the Freo game and have done so a number of times over the last few seasons.

When we tighten up here from the get go you can usually see we're more switched on.  Causing turnovers in more dangerous parts of the ground etc.  Playing loose as we did on Sat you can almost G'tee a loss unless the oppo are bottom 4 or thereabouts and/or having a bad day in front of the goals.

Really good observations. I couldn't agree more, I do see some reasons why we've been doing the folding back zone as it was probably a protective strategy in answer to the run and carry and line breaking we were seeing from opposition teams midway through 22. It has also likely been continued as a sort of cover for not having Petty there however this has produced another issue: We've conceded a lot of scores this year from hack kicks out of the backline to a pack on the wing or centre and if that ball gets to the back of the pack there is a lot of room for them to run into, make leads, be creative with ball movement etc. When the ball is in dispute in the area between centre and half back, this is the most nervous I get in a game right now.

In 2021 we made the ground feel very small for opposition teams, the presence of our players closer and up in their face made it feel this way. Again I understand why we've altered this but I agree when you say this is almost inviting more problems when teams have more time and space to just 'play it around'. 

In addition to this I heavily favour point 1 as it allows the ball to be in the opposition's hands a lot longer. I say this quite often but you do more running without the ball than with it and while it can be boring and get groans from the crowd, I would like to see us aim to keep possession a bit more during the course of a game. Make the opposition do some running and test their patience.

You've already nailed this with what you've said so I'm not adding a lot but this is the challenge the coaches will be facing. We can only back them to get it right.

[Orion 332]

This is probably hard to believe but we're the number one ranked offensive team in the competition this year.  No not in a parallel universe,  this universe.

[Watson11 2,240]

9 minutes ago, Orion said:

This is probably hard to believe but we're the number one ranked offensive team in the competition this year.  No not in a parallel universe,  this universe.

In a parallel universe the hawks, west coast, and north would get booted out of the comp and all scores against them annulled, Carlton would therefore be last, and we would be the number 2 ranked offensive team behind Brisbane. 

[Orion 332]

28 minutes ago, Watson11 said:

In a parallel universe the hawks, west coast, and north would get booted out of the comp and all scores against them annulled, Carlton would therefore be last, and we would be the number 2 ranked offensive team behind Brisbane. 

Yeah the statistic is probably misleading because we beat up on the lowly teams

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

22 hours ago, Gawndy the Great said:

Good points. The defensive 'retreat' is the opposite of what Port and the Pies are doing. At least in 2018 we were manic with our forward half press. .

 

Would much prefer this method over a very loose + high folding zone.  While i'm sure it's probably alot more taxing in the short-term with more effort required in bursts, the rewards are most likely greater if you achieve turnover nearer or inside our 50 yes? 

No proof of this of course.  Just speculating on diff methods.

Potentially a few more shots at goal from more dangerous places vs the alternative?  A few more set shots using the full clock also allows the mids/defenders to recover and reset the zone / press.

No doubt the difficulty here though is with the players 'want and buy in'.  Along with the physical capability to keep this up for lengthy periods and apply high levels of pressure inside 50 and a tad higher.

Need the personnel also.  Talls can't be expected to bring as much as you would expect from mediums / smalls but to be successful everyone still has to bring max effort when we lose possession, including mids drifting forward.

5 hours ago, layzie said:

would like to see us aim to keep possession a bit more during the course of a game. Make the opposition do some running and test their patience.

this is the challenge the coaches will be facing. We can only back them to get it right.

Patient tempo footy L.  An important  point that should not be dismissed lightly.   I felt we had a better balance here in 21 vs 22 and the season so far.

Making the oppo chase / move their X/O positioning & rolling zones.  Testing for weaknesses / holes and testing their endurance & fitness while also pushing 45s / run & gun overlap through corridor or alternatively switch where poss.

We also have two of the best users of the ball accross HB to execute shorter 45s in Bowey & Salem.  May also pretty decent with medium switch kicks.

Get the intercepts up by freeing up Lever with the extra tall in this week.

You then have May, Lever, Rivers and Gus as the intercept defenders.  They feed off to Bowey or Salem who then go for shorter 45s if it's on & look to slingshot through corridor.  Or look to switch as the second option.

Coaches no doubt adjust via game analyses and player feedback in review.

Will be very dissapointing if we continue on in the remaining games from here without any fairly signifcant adjustments to personel & style/method.

Would hate to see another season go to waste.

The ground hog way we lost to Freo in successive seasons should be the canary in the coalmine for Goody, the FD and all leaders / senior players this week.

The next three to four matches will certainly indicate whether they did or didn't notice that Tweety Bird stopped tweeting against Freo.

Edited May 31, 2023 by Demon Dynasty