We will not win a flag with ...

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

It did not mention the players dropped due to form.

I refer in particular to Bizzell and Ferguson. Both were dropped after one game. Does Daniher expect them to walk into the side and dominate straight away. These two blokes need a chance to prove themselves.

I don't intend this to raise arguements about whever these two blokes are good enough.

.....

I believe he should be affording the same oppurtunity to players on our list. Namely Bizzell and Ferguson.

....

Gouga what do you expect to see from Bizz and Ferg that they have not shown in the past 5 years? Neither are up to it. And its not appropriate to just to judge it on one game against Freo. Even if the supporters arent too sure of where they stand, the FD certainly have a close review of them.

They are fringe players who are neither here nor there in the critical issues we need to address.

One of them will be gone at year end and the other a strong possibility to be likewise.

[Bring-Back-Powell 15,240]

I take it your in the trade for trade sake camp.

Akermanis has been injured.

Tarrant has done little.

Everitt has been ordinary.

Polak still has the jury out. Getting in Richmond's best is hardly vindication of much.

So tell me would you have been happy to trade Frawley and Petterd for any of them?

And what would they have provided us this year?

You know what, we were ruthless.... in not trading for other people's damaged goods.

Overall, trading is overrated because no side will readily trades their youth, their future for flawed footballers.

Its amazing how so many people list underperforming MFC players for a trade when no Club could be that stupid to contemplate it.

I guess we've debated this one before.

After the Freo final loss, it was obvious that our list wasn't premiership material.

So without some clever trading, how would we get better?

I thought teams that trade for players do so with the view of winning premierships.

I just thought that by being inactive in the trading period, Melbourne were simply content with our 5th-8th mortgage on the competition.

I firmly believe that Tarrant and Polak would've been great assets for the club, and I would've conceded a second round draft pick for either.

Although I do take your point regarding Petterd/Frawley.

Perhaps our list was/is nowhere near premiership material, and a re-build is required before we challenge again.

[Gouga 570]

RR,

Both have done the job in the past. I'm not saying they are great players. I'm just saying they haven't been given an oppurtunity in recent times which i believe they deserve.

The point i'm trying to get accross is ND will be given the rest of the year to prove himself. I believe that oppurtunity should be afforded to a few players on our list. By the way, i'm not talking all of them.

Brown, Godfrey, Holland, Ward, Wheatley, White and Yze in my opinion have always been given oppurtunities throughout their careers.

Bizzell and Ferguson have not been afforded the same oppurtunities.

Our defence is thin, but ND will prefer to give the blokes listed above another shot rather than Biz or Ferg a decent shot.

Am I getting my point accross? I probably haven't explained it well.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

...

Bizzell didn't exactly play a bad game either.

Can anyone remember who he was playing on against Fremantle?

[Bring-Back-Powell 15,240]

You can take it from me or not. That's fine. You don't know me, I don't know you, so make up your own mind.

But think about it. Most players actually cannot refuse to be traded when push turns to shove. Also, if a player knows he hasn't got the faith of the coach, and another side wants him, what do you think the most likely scenario is?

And not trading this year was a concerted choice we made, not lack of ruthlessness. Aker chose his club. Which one of the other 2 do you think would have enhanced our pre-injury list? And for whom?

Fair enough mate. Some good inside information that you've provided to us re-Ferg/Sewell trade, if true.

Polak should've been the one to go for. Not as expensive as Tarrant and would have provided invaluable service in defence as well as ocassional forays up foward (such as his 3 goal haul V Dogs in rd 4). I've seen Richmond 3 times live this year, and am convinced we should've gone for him. Our defence is a rabble and a shambles at the moment, but I can't think of anyone who is missing except for Whelan and Wheatley (who is not a regular).

As for giving up a player, second round draft pick and Wheatley.

But hopefully Petterd turns into a star and them my argument is moot.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I guess we've debated this one before.

After the Freo final loss, it was obvious that our list wasn't premiership material.

So without some clever trading, how would we get better?

I thought teams that trade for players do so with the view of winning premierships.

I just thought that by being inactive in the trading period, Melbourne were simply content with our 5th-8th mortgage on the competition.

I firmly believe that Tarrant and Polak would've been great assets for the club, and I would've conceded a second round draft pick for either.

Clever trading should involve a net benefit to your list.

Great you go into the market for a second round pick (For Melbourne that would be pick 30) for either Tarrant or Polak.

Polak went to Richmond for pick# 8.

Tarrant went to Freo for pick# 8 plus Medhurst.

So who is your bunny, BBP? Hardly a clever trade offer to be taken seriously.

Now to get Tarrant or Polak, our best pick was pick 12 Frawley. They may not be enough. So who would you trade off from MFC to get pick # 8 on our list and who would realistically pay for it?

I think your comments lack a bit of analysis of the reality of the situation.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

RR,

Both have done the job in the past. I'm not saying they are great players. I'm just saying they haven't been given an oppurtunity in recent times which i believe they deserve.

The point i'm trying to get accross is ND will be given the rest of the year to prove himself. I believe that oppurtunity should be afforded to a few players on our list. By the way, i'm not talking all of them.

Brown, Godfrey, Holland, Ward, Wheatley, White and Yze in my opinion have always been given oppurtunities throughout their careers.

Bizzell and Ferguson have not been afforded the same oppurtunities.

Our defence is thin, but ND will prefer to give the blokes listed above another shot rather than Biz or Ferg a decent shot.

Sorry, both Ferg and Bizzell have been tried often and have come up short.

Bizzell was a member of the leadership group fro many years and especially was given plenty, plenty of opportunity during 2005 when he put together a strong of shockers. We limped into the 2005 finals minus Neitz and a number of players and Bizzell could not even scratch the form at Sandy to get up.

We know what we can get from them and its not good enough.

FWIW, White and Yze have played far better football than Bizz and Ferg over the past three years and they dont compete for positions with Bizz and Ferg.

Holland last year showed what Ferg could not do...play body on body defence. Brown and Godfrey again dont compete with Ferg and Bizzell for positions.

Ward got a break last year and made the best fist of it. He's in the same basket as Bizz. Wheatley has been injury riddled.

At this point in time what many of them do have in common with Ferg and Bizz is they are not good enough.

Whether ND survives as Coach is a moot point. If he does succeed it will be by getting the skilled players who have been injured and out not by recycling player who had continual and proven faults that leave them short as AFL players.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Bizzell didn't exactly play a bad game either.

Can anyone remember who he was playing on against Fremantle?

But it was not exactly a bad game then!

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

But it was not exactly a bad game then!

I'm saying that he didn't play a bad game, in fact I thought that he did quite well especially since he was out of the game for over a year.

I can't remember who he was playing on because I can't remember anyone kicking a bag of goals on him.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I'm saying that he didn't play a bad game, in fact I thought that he did quite well especially since he was out of the game for over a year.

I can't remember who he was playing on because I can't remember anyone kicking a bag of goals on him.

Thanks for your analysis. We should sign him up on another contract.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Thanks for your analysis.

No worries.

[occo 2]

Not sure who was taken from 10 onwards in that draft but I would rate Johnstone second behind Chad Cornes. Cornes was awesome last week v St Kilda, a more versatile player you will not find exept maybe Kouta & Hird at their peaks. Cornes is the only player in that ten I would rather see in the Red & Blue than TJ even then I reckon its a close call.

What about Power...creams it in brisbane

[Bring-Back-Powell 15,240]

Clever trading should involve a net benefit to your list.

Great you go into the market for a second round pick (For Melbourne that would be pick 30) for either Tarrant or Polak.

Polak went to Richmond for pick# 8.

Tarrant went to Freo for pick# 8 plus Medhurst.

So who is your bunny, BBP? Hardly a clever trade offer to be taken seriously.

I would've thrown in Sylvia in the mix in return for a late draft pick. The kid's too injury prone and I have grave doubts that he'll justify his no 3 pick.

This would've created outrage at the time, but consider this trade:

Melb recieve Tarrant/Polak and round 4 draft pick

Collingwood/Freo recieve round 3 draft pick and Sylvia.

So in essence we've conceded a round 3 draft pick but possess two round 4 draft picks, while we've also acquired a talented and much needed defender/forward who would've been magic with all our injuries.

The major rolling of the dice would be Sylvia. If he remains injury free and justifies his no 3 pick, then we lose.

[maggotbasher 0]

Byron Pickett was brought in as the icing on the cake to win a flag, unfortunately there no longer is any cake !

And that icing has gotten fat, slow and useless in the off season.

[Jaded No More 68,975]

Polak should've been the one to go for.

I wouldn't be surprised if they looked at his history and said "no thank you", and rightly so.

If you know anyone who knows anyone who knows what goes on behind closed doors, you would realise that Polak has significant baggage and can be a cancer at any club. Don't care how good he could be, I'm glad we stayed well clear.

As for Tarrant, please he is a hot and cold forward who also has significant baggage. Besides, he wanted to get away from Melbourne.

There wasn't a single player up for trade last year, who could change our fortunes either in the short, or the long term. Aker may have helped a little, but he wanted nothing to do with us.

[Guest dee'viator]

The point i'm trying to get accross is ND will be given the rest of the year to prove himself. I believe that oppurtunity should be afforded to a few players on our list. By the way, i'm not talking all of them.

Brown, Godfrey, Holland, Ward, Wheatley, White and Yze in my opinion have always been given oppurtunities throughout their careers.

Bizzell and Ferguson have not been afforded the same oppurtunities.

Our defence is thin, but ND will prefer to give the blokes listed above another shot rather than Biz or Ferg a decent shot.

Am I getting my point accross? I probably haven't explained it well.

Unfortunately this year we have too make some tough calls re some favourite sons:-

Brown, Holland, Bizzell, Ward, will probably make way because of factors of age, kicking & running abilities & replacements.

Poss' also some like Bode may well move on,,,

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I would've thrown in Sylvia in the mix in return for a late draft pick. The kid's too injury prone and I have grave doubts that he'll justify his no 3 pick.

This would've created outrage at the time, but consider this trade:

Melb recieve Tarrant/Polak and round 4 draft pick

Collingwood/Freo recieve round 3 draft pick and Sylvia.

So in essence we've conceded a round 3 draft pick but possess two round 4 draft picks, while we've also acquired a talented and much needed defender/forward who would've been magic with all our injuries.

The major rolling of the dice would be Sylvia. If he remains injury free and justifies his no 3 pick, then we lose.

Who was to say other clubs would want an OP stricken unproven player?

Was MFC putting him on the table? Weakens our midfield rotation which is already painfully dependent on McLean and Jones.

What would Collingwood want Pick 8 plus Medhurst or pick 46 and Sylvia?

No deal. Collingwood would get screwed over it.

See its alot harder than you think. And each deal involves some cost to get the benefit.

[grazman 7,504]

I'm surprised that people are even talking about Tarrant and Polak - I hope its not the same people that have been criticising the club for a lack of leadership. Both Tarrant and Polak carry significant baggage.

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty certain that Tarrant was interested in getting out of Melbourne which is why he went

West. As for Polak he was recruited as a CHB, yet hasn't played there. He apparently played a very good game against the Eagles, but I don't know why people are saying he's having a good year. I watched him closely against both Collingwood and the Bulldogs and while he does a couple of nice things he goes missing far too often. He really should be establishing himself as a dominant player now if he were going to be one, he's not mentally tough enough to be that sort of player. He is destined to disappoint.

[BrownlowBruce 1]

TJ once and still is my favourite player. However i really am disappointed. I don't think anyone out there could say that he has shown evidence of a round 1 pick...and i would be astonished if someone did believe he has shown those qualities. I think TJ has got the skills and attributes. Hes a match winner, can kick pracisly and kick goals. Reads the play better than any player, is caragious too. I watched the 2006 Brissy v Melb game an hour ago and TJ had 100% accuracy level. For years i have loved him but yeah i guess saying dissopointed has been said. The 1997 draft consisted of:

1. TJ

2. Ottens

3. Croad

4. Mark Bolton

5. Luke Power

6. James Walker

7. Kris Mackie

8. Tarrant

9. Chad Cornes

10. Shane O'Bree

In TJ's defence there are 4 players i rate more than him: Croad, Power, Tarrant and Cornes. I guess the draft wasnt fantastic: http://www.answers.com/topic/1997-afl-draft (heres the site for thoes of u playing at home)

Rhyce Prismall(brother of brent) - Plays for Western Jets and played Metro last year as a bottom ager. Listed as 189cm/86kg and plays as an athletic third tall type but can play midfield

The other players that will never win us a premiership are:

Miller - in my opinion is trade bait and dunn being #1 CHF will take twice as quick to develop if in the 22 week in week out

tarrant no.. wat about power? re think ur opinion.....

miller is playin great football and i belive the future of MFC may lie within him.... we cant afford to trade him... he has proven himself this season and he has worked hard to be more consistant....

Rhyce prissmall interesting..... i went to school with both him and his brother.. and know brent quite well..... it is said he is suppose to be better than his older brother.... but i cant see him maturing and adapting as quick to AFL football like brent has...... brent has a better size about him now ... and did when he was younger too.

we need some more defenders... not midfeilders...

[occo 2]

tarrant no.. wat about power? re think ur opinion.....

miller is playin great football and i belive the future of MFC may lie within him.... we cant afford to trade him... he has proven himself this season and he has worked hard to be more consistant....

Rhyce prissmall interesting..... i went to school with both him and his brother.. and know brent quite well..... it is said he is suppose to be better than his older brother.... but i cant see him maturing and adapting as quick to AFL football like brent has...... brent has a better size about him now ... and did when he was younger too.

we need some more defenders... not midfeilders...

Yeah i rate Luke a lot. Who wouldnt...well obviously u dont. I would prefer luke power over TJ any day. Jes cant believe there are people here not rating Power. some of u guys are weird