There's a simple correlation between one's support for Yze and that person's belief in statistics as a sole measure of worth on a footy field.

Every argument for Yze is based on statistics, and every argument against Yze is based on watching the game.

But in the end it's up to the coach to decide whether his presence benefits the side.

When has Yze played well or kicked goals against tough opposition in a crucial game? The last time he even looked like it was when he was captain in the 2004EF vs Essendon and they were a weak 8th who we never should have lost to. He does a very nice job finishing off soft clubs like Collingwood, Richmond, the Roos and the Dogs - and heaven knows someone has to - it's just a pity he couldn't manage it against Carlton last year - that's what we really missed particularly the 2nd time. But when the temperature goes up ...

I'm on record that no Melbourne flag side will contain all 3 of Yze, Robbo and Davey unless they have attitude transplants. Look that's not fair on Davey - his body is not built for the press and not completely fair on Robbo who is improved in this area.

Back on topic, Miller was severely restricted by OP last year. This year he'll have a chance to show just how ordinary he is.

Every argument for Yze is based on statistics, and every argument against Yze is based on watching the game.

Exactly.

All you Yze haters- where were you when he kicked 5 against the dogs, 4 against the roos, 4 against the pies, 3 against the cats, 3 against the swans and multiple goals against freo, roos and port? He did all that whilst still managing to be 6th in the entire league for kicks! geez..sif you drop yze, than you are dropping pure class.

If miller had half the season that Yze had than Miller would be captain in 2007.

They where against soft opponents mate. You could kick a bag on them. Yze disgraced himself and our jumper when the heat was put on. Classic example Freo and Adelaide. Was nowhere to be seen? I don't expect to be a hard player, it's just not in his nature, and you can't have a whole team of in and unders, however he is a senior player who has been around since 95, who still continues to shirk contests and put in repeated soft efforts, I think that’s what really gets people.

Somehow every thread about Miller turns into Miller-bashing, and then evolves into Yze-bashing. How confusing

It's pre-season, so lets give all players the benefit of the doubt. Anyone can transform their attitude, or step up.

Hopefully both Miller (skill wise, not attitude) and Yze can show us they are capable.

If you combined Miller's body and toughness with Yze's skill and class then you'd have the perfect player and everyone would be happy!

I'm on record that no Melbourne flag side will contain all 3 of Yze, Robbo and Davey

Whoa whoa whoa! Robbo? I can see it with Ooze and Davey, but what's wrong with Robbo? Is it his knack of hitting the deck at every opportunity? Lack of forward-line pressure? No-one's perfect Old. I've always admired his attitude, but I'm sure you have a good explanation. Have at it.

Look at Chooper squeezing out his guns in your new Avatar. Subtle as a sledgehammer.

There's a simple correlation between one's support for Yze and that person's belief in statistics as a sole measure of worth on a footy field.

Every argument for Yze is based on statistics, and every argument against Yze is based on watching the game.

You're not suggesting that statistics don't assist in determining whether a footballer is of value to his club are you?

You're not suggesting that statistics don't assist in determining whether a footballer is of value to his club are you?

The appropriate statistics can assist but not taken purely in isolation. For example in the current style of football being played, a players number of possession is a nebulous factor that can miststate a players contribution.

FWIW, I think Old and Bob have got it spot on......once again.

Look at Chooper squeezing out his guns in your new Avatar. Subtle as a sledgehammer.

Excuse me, but my avatar was selected purely for its 'intimidation' factor.

BTW, I'm a huge Robbo fan (that's an underestatment!), but I too recognise the fact that he'll need to have a serious form turnaround to stay safe in our 22. 2006 was the first season he's ever been hampered by injuries, and it showed. Hopefully now that he's fit again he can return to his former self, with an added dimension to his game.

I think Old is focusing on having the sort of small running forwards that Sydney have, like O'Keefe. He wants our non-KPPs to be as useful without the footy, as they are with it. I'm very critical of Yze's lazy attitude, but Robbo didn't do a lot of chasing either last year.

Of course the difference between those two is that one will bleed to see us win, the other won't risk getting injured. Oh, and Robbo has performed in most finals too (including that god-awful day in 2000).

Good post Jaded.

I thought your history of broken toes would be intimidating enough!

Fair 'nuff.

I will say this though. I realise Robbo's year was only hampered (not ended) by his injury troubles, but I thought he was more serviceable than people give him credit for. He averaged nearly 2 goals a game, which is more than can be said for some other supposedly top-line goal-kickers. With Neitz occupying so much space he's always found it tricky finding room. You only need to look as far as 2006 for what he does when Neitz is suppressed. We had one of the better attacks last year, and he was our second-best goal-kicker. Like I say, I'm not as cranky with him as some.

Having said that, I reckon I agree with much of what you said there. One of the things that annoys me about him is best described when you compare him to Bruce. "Before2Long" put it best when he said that when Bruce goes up for a mark, he takes them enough of the time for him to win over the space of the whole match, but when he doesn't take one, he keeps his feet and recovers well to reclaim the spoils and run on in better space than his opponent. Robbo is the opposite of this. We all love how much he tries but he'd be a far more effective player if he just kept his feet. Also, when he's on the deck with the ball, he has a nasty habit of exploding out of a group of tacklers hollywood style and handballing blindly to where he thinks a team-mate might be, instead of just looking and handballing.

Yeah, Robbo's problems aren't so bad when he's kicking 3-4 goals every second week. But if Neitz has a 60+ year, or better even, I fear Robbo may have to change his game to become less of a goal-kicker, more of a flanker. The first step would be to trim down as much as possible, which it seems he has done.

Good post Jaded.

I thought your history of broken toes would be intimidating enough!

It's more a testiment to how clumsy and hopelessly uncoordinated I can be. I can't even blame excessive drinking for all those injuries either.

DD, I hope Robbo can adapt his game to become more than just a goal-kicker, but I'm not convinced. He's 28, and it's very hard to teach an old dog new tricks. He, along with Neita, are our main targets, and that shouldn't change. But as you said, he needs to keep his feet and play it smart when he doesn't have the ball. He is a very tough opponent (he might even beat Clement this year, now that he can't push his opponents in the back :angry: ) because he is small, yet so good in the air. But really, for his size, he should be more mobile and better able to handle a ball off the ground. I hope he can do a bit more of that this year, because until Neita retires, he won't be our first-choice goal-kicker, and he won't have the luxury to sitting in the square flying for marks.

FWIW, I think Old and Bob have got it spot on......once again.

Bring on Dunn, Bate, Jones, Bartram, Carroll, et al.

I am with u :D Time to get behind all the younger players

Go Dees B)