2015 the hottest year on record

[Gator 17,468]

It will be seen that there is no correlation whatsoever between carbon dioxide concentration and the temperature at the earth’s surface.

During the latter part of the Carboniferous, the Permian and the first half of the Triassic period, 250-320 million years ago, carbon dioxide concentration was half what it is today but the temperature was 10ºC higher than today . Oxygen in the atmosphere fluctuated from 15 to 35% during this period

From the Cretaceous to the Eocene 35 to 100 million years ago, a high temperature went with declining carbon dioxide.

The theory that carbon dioxide concentration is related to the temperature of the earth’s surface is therefore wrong.

Vincent Gray

Wellington, New Zealand

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/06/04/dr-vincent-gray-on-historical-carbon-dioxide-levels/

[Gator 17,468]

The NOAA HAS made adjustments to US temperature data over the last few years that has increased the apparent warming trend.  These changes in adjustments have not been well-explained.  In fact, they have not really be explained at all, and have only been detected by skeptics who happened to archive old NOAA charts and created comparisons like the one below.  Here is the before and after animation(pre-2000 NOAA US temperature history vs. post-2000).  History has been cooled and modern temperatures have been warmed from where they were being shown previously by the NOAA.  This does not mean the current version  is wrong, but since the entire US warming signal was effectively created by these changes, it is not unreasonable to act for a detailed reconciliation (particularly when those folks preparing the chart all believe that temperatures are going up, so would be predisposed to treating a flat temperature chart like the earlier 

 

http://www.climate-skeptic.com/category/temperature-measurement

 

 

 

[dieter 3,325]

Till Copernicus came along the 'scientists' agreed with the Church that the earth was flat.

Apparently the Church still believes that god made marriage as an institution for men and women.

Apparently the Church still believes the mother of Jesus was a virgin.

That Jesus died on the cross and ascended into heaven.

Yes, you can get a lot of seemingly sane and rational people sprouting all manner of outlandish hog wash and the bigger the hogwash the more inclined are most of us to believe in the hogwash.

I don't believe much hogwash. I never have. That's why I don't believe Malcolm Roberts/The Abbottoir and most far right Coalition fringe lunatics, a  band of merry making climate change deniers who believe in the beauty of coal. I just don't get it...

[Phadraig 760]

1 hour ago, dieter said:

Till Copernicus came along the 'scientists' agreed with the Church that the earth was flat.

Apparently the Church still believes that god made marriage as an institution for men and women.

Apparently the Church still believes the mother of Jesus was a virgin.

That Jesus died on the cross and ascended into heaven.

Yes, you can get a lot of seemingly sane and rational people sprouting all manner of outlandish hog wash and the bigger the hogwash the more inclined are most of us to believe in the hogwash.

I don't believe much hogwash. I never have. That's why I don't believe Malcolm Roberts/The Abbottoir and most far right Coalition fringe lunatics, a  band of merry making climate change deniers who believe in the beauty of coal. I just don't get it...

You could have compressed your post into a sentence and we would have got the same details from it. You speak of hogwash and then add it to the majority of your reply.

[daisycutter 29,738]

2 hours ago, dieter said:

Till Copernicus came along the 'scientists' agreed with the Church that the earth was flat.

 

 

 

that is just a tired old myth

the ancients knew the world was round, in fact they "fairly" accurately calculated its circumference long before christianity even existed

[dieter 3,325]

8 hours ago, daisycutter said:

that is just a tired old myth

the ancients knew the world was round, in fact they "fairly" accurately calculated its circumference long before christianity even existed

The 'ancients' weren't the so-called christians who ruled and controlled the so-called 'civilised' western world. The ancients were the so-called barbarians. I quote Copernicus again, Martin Luther etc etc. 

In other words, the world as we know it is run by hocus pocus bulldust merchants, the wealthy now rule instead of the church, and they want and need us to stay as pig ignorant as the church required us to.

[Jara 1,153]

9 hours ago, daisycutter said:

that is just a tired old myth

the ancients knew the world was round, in fact they "fairly" accurately calculated its circumference long before christianity even existed

With all due respect, Daisy (and I'm just shooting from the hip here, can't be bothered looking up the details) but I think Dieter's correct. At the time Copernicus proposed his theory, the vast majority of the "scientific" community would have agreed with the Church. I know Greek philosophers had proposed that the earth was round, but those ideas had largely disappeared in the intervening 2000 years. Copernicus's views were so revolutionary that, like Darwin, he was reluctant to publish them for many years.

[daisycutter 29,738]

2 hours ago, Jara said:

With all due respect, Daisy (and I'm just shooting from the hip here, can't be bothered looking up the details) but I think Dieter's correct. At the time Copernicus proposed his theory, the vast majority of the "scientific" community would have agreed with the Church. I know Greek philosophers had proposed that the earth was round, but those ideas had largely disappeared in the intervening 2000 years. Copernicus's views were so revolutionary that, like Darwin, he was reluctant to publish them for many years.

this "flat earth" claim has been discussed and debunked on many history forums. science was not that ignorant. 

even any common sailor knew the world was round. they only had to look at the horizon and see the bottom half of ships disappearing

p.s. copernicus's issue with the church was about heliocentricity, not about whether the earth was flat

Edited November 8, 2017 by daisycutter

[Jara 1,153]

Yes, I know that Copernicus proposed that the earth revolved around the sun, but I'm still not sure why you're saying Dieter's wrong. Aren't the earth revolving around the sun and its being round kind of inter-related - i.e. in demonstrating that the earth revolved around the sun, wasn't he showing that it was round? Sure, sailors etc knew that ships sank over the horizon, but the official position was that the sun revolved around the earth. That's why Copernicus was reluctant to publish.

 

I can't speak for him, but think that's all Dieter's trying to say - that before Copernicus, the authorities could rely upon faith. After him, thinking people had to rely upon observation. 

 

  

[Gator 17,468]

 

[daisycutter 29,738]

1 hour ago, Jara said:

Yes, I know that Copernicus proposed that the earth revolved around the sun, but I'm still not sure why you're saying Dieter's wrong. Aren't the earth revolving around the sun and its being round kind of inter-related - i.e. in demonstrating that the earth revolved around the sun, wasn't he showing that it was round? Sure, sailors etc knew that ships sank over the horizon, but the official position was that the sun revolved around the earth. That's why Copernicus was reluctant to publish.

 

I can't speak for him, but think that's all Dieter's trying to say - that before Copernicus, the authorities could rely upon faith. After him, thinking people had to rely upon observation. 

 

  

the church didn't object to the earth being round. anyway irrelevant because science knew the earth was round and that was the subject under discussion 

[daisycutter 29,738]

Myth of the flat Earth

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

 

This article is about the modern myth that medieval Europeans believed that Earth was flat. For mythologies involving the actual belief in a Flat Earth, see Flat Earth.T

The myth of the flat Earth is the modern misconception that the prevailing cosmological view during the Middle Ages in Europe was that the Earth is flat, instead of spherical.^[1][2]

During the early Middle Ages, virtually all scholars maintained the spherical viewpoint first expressed by the Ancient Greeks. From at least the 14th century, belief in a flat Earth among the educated was almost nonexistent, despite fanciful depictions in art, such as the exterior of Hieronymus Bosch's famous triptych The Garden of Earthly Delights, in which a disc-shaped Earth is shown floating inside a transparent sphere.^[3]

 

^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_flat_Earth}

[dieter 3,325]

32 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

the church didn't object to the earth being round. anyway irrelevant because science knew the earth was round and that was the subject under discussion 

As Jara so eloquently put it Copernicus got into strife because he challenged the bulldust that the Church tried to corral the truth  into, time and time again, in much the same way that our new rulers, i.e. the Corporations and the Armaments industry will disseminate all kinds of lies and propaganda - e.g. the Sugar industry, the Petroleum industry, the tobacco industry and we won't even mention the coal merchants , let alone the billionaries who sell weapons of mass destruction to all and sundry - to try to corral us into believing that climate change is crap, that war after war is not only justified but necessary ,e.g. Iraq, Afghanistan, Korea, Vietnam, paying and arming  mercenaries disguised as 'rebels' to fulfill US/Israeli Neo-Con agendas in Libya, Syria and next, and they're already working on it, Iran.

Nowadays, people who do want to 'observe' and serve science as it explores the real truth are treated the same way as Copernicus was. So-called Scientists unashamedly - but secretly - take huge bribes from corporations to help them tell the biggest fibs they can.

As Goebbels said, the hoi polloi are hungry for the bulldust that's fed to them. The bigger the lie the hungrier they become.

And I quote:

May 2, 2016

Don Easterbrook was listed among “Key Scientists” appearing in Marc Morano's movie, Climate Hustle. The full list included the following: [4]

• Robert Giegengack
• Judith Curry
• Richard Tol
• Caleb Rossiter
• Ivar Giaever
• Roy Spencer
• Daniel B. Botkin
• Patrick Moore
• Don J. Easterbrook
• Robert M. Carter
• John Theon
• Dennis Rancourt
• William M. Briggs
• Roger Pielke Sr.
• Walter Cunningham
• Patrick J. Michaels
• Lord Christopher Monckton
• Anthony Watts
• Leighton Steward
• Philip Stott
• Will Happer

Marc Morano's Climate Hustle was released in U.S. theatres on May 2, 2016. Bill Nye described it as  “not in our national interest and the world’s interest.” [13]

The film was produced by the Committee for Constructive Tomorrow (CFACT) and CDRCommunications. As noted at Desmog's project, ClimateHustler.org,  CFACT has received funding from ExxonMobil, Chevron, as well as hundreds of thousands of dollars from foundations associated with Richard Mellon Scaife. CFACT has also received at least $7.8 million in “dark money” through DonorsTrust and Donors Capital Fund. [14], [15]

CDR Communications was behind the 2010 video by the Cornwall Alliance titled Resisting the Green Dragon, which claimed environmentalism was a “false religion” and a “global government” power grab. Chris Rogers of CDR Communictions is also chairman of The James Partnership, the umbrella arm that includes the Cornwall Alliance as one of its projects and pays the salary of Calvin Beisner, Cornwall’s founder and spokesperson. [16]

 

Edited November 8, 2017 by dieter

[dieter 3,325]

11 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

Myth of the flat Earth

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

 

This article is about the modern myth that medieval Europeans believed that Earth was flat. For mythologies involving the actual belief in a Flat Earth, see Flat Earth.T

The myth of the flat Earth is the modern misconception that the prevailing cosmological view during the Middle Ages in Europe was that the Earth is flat, instead of spherical.^[1][2]

During the early Middle Ages, virtually all scholars maintained the spherical viewpoint first expressed by the Ancient Greeks. From at least the 14th century, belief in a flat Earth among the educated was almost nonexistent, despite fanciful depictions in art, such as the exterior of Hieronymus Bosch's famous triptych The Garden of Earthly Delights, in which a disc-shaped Earth is shown floating inside a transparent sphere.^[3]

 

^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_flat_Earth}

So the crap that the earth is flat was preached and sanctified for 13 hundred years.

Congratulations, DCutter. for totally 'destroying' my point that the people who rule us are happy for us to spend most of our lives foraging in the crap that ensues after the diet of lies they shove down our throats.

With regard to climate change, we ain't got another 13 hundred years brother....

[dieter 3,325]

1 hour ago, ProDee said:

 

This man is a fraud and a climate change [censored]. Look up the counterarguments on https://www.desmogblog.com/don-easterbrook

[daisycutter 29,738]

45 minutes ago, dieter said:

So the crap that the earth is flat was preached and sanctified for 13 hundred years.

Congratulations, DCutter. for totally 'destroying' my point that the people who rule us are happy for us to spend most of our lives foraging in the crap that ensues after the diet of lies they shove down our throats.

With regard to climate change, we ain't got another 13 hundred years brother....

oh dear....oh dear

[Jara 1,153]

1 hour ago, daisycutter said:

Myth of the flat Earth

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

 

This article is about the modern myth that medieval Europeans believed that Earth was flat. For mythologies involving the actual belief in a Flat Earth, see Flat Earth.T

The myth of the flat Earth is the modern misconception that the prevailing cosmological view during the Middle Ages in Europe was that the Earth is flat, instead of spherical.^[1][2]

During the early Middle Ages, virtually all scholars maintained the spherical viewpoint first expressed by the Ancient Greeks. From at least the 14th century, belief in a flat Earth among the educated was almost nonexistent, despite fanciful depictions in art, such as the exterior of Hieronymus Bosch's famous triptych The Garden of Earthly Delights, in which a disc-shaped Earth is shown floating inside a transparent sphere.^[3]

 

^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_flat_Earth}

Well, if the purpose of life is to learn something new every day, I've just learned a few days worth. Thanks, that was an interesting read. I've even read the book by Gould, but I didn't remember that. Most amazing bit - that the main period in which people believed in a flat earth was in the 19th Century - in response to Darwin.

 

What I don't get is why Copernicus was afraid to publish - if everybody already knew the earth was round, was it such a giant step to say it revolved around the sun? And yet the Church seems to have burnt people at the stake for saying so. I don't get it.

 

Anyway, quite interesting. We'd probably all achieve more if we sat around arguing about Medieval cosmology instead of Global Warming. 

[dieter 3,325]

56 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

oh dear....oh dear

Who you callin dear?

[dieter 3,325]

2 minutes ago, Jara said:

Well, if the purpose of life is to learn something new every day, I've just learned a few days worth. Thanks, that was an interesting read. I've even read the book by Gould, but I didn't remember that. Most amazing bit - that the main period in which people believed in a flat earth was in the 19th Century - in response to Darwin.

 

What I don't get is why Copernicus was afraid to publish - if everybody already knew the earth was round, was it such a giant step to say it revolved around the sun? And yet the Church seems to have burnt people at the stake for saying so. I don't get it.

 

Anyway, quite interesting. We'd probably all achieve more if we sat around arguing about Medieval cosmology instead of Global Warming. 

Why do you think Copernicus was afraid???????You forget how powerful the so-called Church was - was and still is in this country, witness DLP split, the lunatic fringe beliefs of Bernardi and the Abbottoir ( a very keen Santamaria  acolyte )  and Andrews, the same sex marriage debacle where even Spain and Ireland have allowed common sense and compassion to rule -  and, yep you mentioned it, the bastards burnt you if you flouted their fundamentalist patriarchal ideology.  

If you think I'm maybe a bit bitter and twisted about the so called church, you're right. I attended Salesian College Rupertswood  as a day boy therefore I missed the 'warm cuddly' stuff. Unfortunately my best friend didn't. He still wears the scars.

What we did get in regular abundance was lies and propaganda rammed down our throats - not all of them were lunatics, mind you. The Headmaster, for example, took Social Sudies in Matric and he used to turn apoplectic about the rape of Vietnam by the USA and Australia Most of all we faced the viscious brutality born from a goulash of bigotry, sexual frustration and the unconscious rage they must have felt when they inevitably faced the fact they were living a futile anachronistic lie where on the one hand they were supposed to be the sheppards of Jesus but in reality most of the were just indoctrinated order followers and  child beaters and child molesters.

[Wrecker45 3,378]

On 08/11/2017 at 4:14 PM, dieter said:

This man is a fraud and a climate change [censored]. Look up the counterarguments on https://www.desmogblog.com/don-easterbrook

What are to counter arguments? I've been to the site and it just seemed to be a biography.

[Wrecker45 3,378]

On 08/11/2017 at 2:59 PM, ProDee said:

 

It's incredible that NASA and NOAA have "adjusted" the 1930 temperatures down after the fact. It's even more incredible that the media and politicians don't seem to care. This is not some pie in the sky what might happen in the future scam, it is a well documented fraud that you can see with your own eyes.

[Gator 17,468]

According to NASA and NOAA, Earth and the Arctic are much warmer now than they were in 1940. Yet in 1940 Arctic ice was melting, and in 2017 Arctic ice is expanding. Ice doesn’t lie, but government climate scientists do.

The 1930's was the hottest decade on record until NASA and NOAA adjusted data.  

[Gator 17,468]

The facts wreck global warming theory, so NASA quite predictably responded by erasing the 1940’s Arctic warmth.

[Gator 17,468]

There are many indications that the 1940’s were as warmer or warmer than the present, and that government climate scientists intentionally erased the warmth.

They're scratching their heads as to why it was warmer and what they can do about it.  They simply started making "adjustments".  Because how could it be warmer then with less CO2 in the atmosphere ?  That's not helpful at all.

[Gator 17,468]

Thick Arctic ice is growing at a greater rate than a decade ago when NASA and NOAA would have you believe the Arctic's temperatures are the hottest on record.

Only a Leftwing brain would think that sounds reasonable.