Fears grow for homeland attacks

[Earl Hood 6,101]

To compare Christians and Catholics to the atrocities committed in the name if Islam is truly disgusting and reprehensible. You ought be ashamed.

You are serious? I could start at the Crusades, work my way through the Spanish Inquisition and colonial conquests in the New World all the way to the modern day and the current Royal Commission into child abuse that has shocked everyone. The Christian religions have been up to mischief for centuries. I am not saying Islam is all that better or worse. The problem is organised religions in general. The older I get the more I believe they bring more trouble than whatever good they may deliver. A few years ago we thought Christian organisations did a lot of good caring for children in orphanages, parishes and schools, now we have our doubts.

Note the poster is a baptised Catholic and was educated by the Christian Brothers. I got through that experience unscathed apart from fairly regular strappings. Others suffered much more, some have suicided since. On reflection there were some inspirational brothers but there also some sadists, religious nutters and the pure evil.

[hardtack 10,627]

Having grown up in the northern suburbs I have studied and worked alongside many Muslims. The overwhelming majority of which are peaceful and law abiding citizens.

However, I don't believe it to be a religion that shows much respect for women or tolerance for other minorities (i.e. homosexuals). I don't believe the burqa should be allowed to be worn in banks, airports or while driving for safety and security reasons.

I don't think it is the job of the government nor police to arrest any peanut wanting to leave this country to go and fight in Syria. However they shouldn't be allowed to return.

I live in a part of Sydney that has a large islamic population, many of my kids friends are from families that practice the islamic faith and all of them are far more tolerant than Hannibal. I have never felt threatened and have received nothing but courtesy in places like Lakembah, Belmore, Campsie, Canterbury etc where there are large islamic populations. We have a number of friends who married into the islamic faith and have no issues at all.

As for the islamic regard for women, well that is no different to most religions that are for the most part dominated by males and treat women as second class. All religions, in my opinion are about controlling people, so I have little time for any of them, but to claim that islam is an evil religion (as our friend H does) is an absolute joke... it all comes down to how the word is interpreted and christians are as guilty as anyone when it comes to that... fundamentalism in any religion is dangerous.

[Hannibal 5,814]

I suggest you do a little searching in relation to some of the christian groups operating in Africa, not to mention Ireland in the recent past and the Crusades in the distant past. The Vatican was built on the spoils of the pillaging and plundering and murder that took place during the Crusades... and they still claim it as their own.

You mean the cannibal murder, etc. ?

You really are the pits to even equate rare incidents around the world of Christian brutality compered with a religion dominated by it.

Christians welcome other religions with open arms and work well with them. Where don't Christians assimilate ?

As I said, you're disgusting.

[Hannibal 5,814]

You are serious? I could start at the Crusades, work my way through the Spanish Inquisition and colonial conquests in the New World all the way to the modern day and the current Royal Commission into child abuse that has shocked everyone. The Christian religions have been up to mischief for centuries. I am not saying Islam is all that better or worse. The problem is organised religions in general. The older I get the more I believe they bring more trouble than whatever good they may deliver. A few years ago we thought Christian organisations did a lot of good caring for children in orphanages, parishes and schools, now we have our doubts.

Note the poster is a baptised Catholic and was educated by the Christian Brothers. I got through that experience unscathed apart from fairly regular strappings. Others suffered much more, some have suicided since. On reflection there were some inspirational brothers but there also some sadists, religious nutters and the pure evil.

What is with the Left ? You're kind of sick.

Do me a favour, let's talk currently, not when witches were burned at the stake.

[Hannibal 5,814]

far more tolerant than Hannibal.

Give me an example of my "intolerance". I'm expressing an opinion about Islam and their assimilation. It's not intolerance it's a commentary on fact.

[Hannibal 5,814]

I repeat again. You mentioned you have NEVER raised Islam and asylum seeker policy in the same breath. Again, I have pulled a post that you wrote within the last FRIGGIN' 24 HOURS where you did just that.

You are becoming a parody of yourself and are to be pitied more than despised. Most of us with a bit of shame would just slink off into the corner however you seem to bask in your own hypocrisy and ignorance. It's almost like a badge of honor to you.

I know that this might get me a warning or a banning but quite frankly, your style of debating is a joke. You confuse analysis with volume and vitriol and quite frankly, I'm sick of your arrogance. I don't mind debates with intelligent and articulate conservatives but you are a s**t stirrer, pure and simple.

To the block list with you.

You're unhinged.

I said that it would represent 1% of my offerings and asked you to confirm the percentage. Clearly I couldn't remember the utterance as it's not my main complaint. Clearly I couldn't remember the utterance as it's not my main complaint. Clearly I couldn't remember the utterance as it's not my main complaint. Clearly I couldn't remember the utterance as it's not my main complaint. Got it ??

I said that I don't don't resile from my comment. I completely agree with my comment, but CLEARLY it's not the MAIN tenet of my argument against asylum seekers.

Blocking me confirms you can't compete in a civil debate. Bye, but not missed.

[hardtack 10,627]

Give me an example of my "intolerance". I'm expressing an opinion about Islam and their assimilation. It's not intolerance it's a commentary on fact.

Thanks Hannibal, you just gave me a genuine belly laugh.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Thanks Hannibal, you just gave me a genuine belly laugh.

The left love to play the intolerance card. It allows them to escape meaningful debate and rely on good intentions.

Left foot left foot.

You must walk in circles.

Edited February 1, 2014 by Hannibal

[Earl Hood 6,101]

What is with the Left ? You're kind of sick.

Do me a favour, let's talk currently, not when witches were burned at the stake.

Gee most of the comments in my post deal with the past 40 years or so.

By the way do you often find yourself surrounded by idiots at social functions? Just wondering!

[hardtack 10,627]

The left love to play the intolerance card. It allows them to escape meaningful debate and rely on good intentions.

Left foot left foot.

You must walk in circles.

And the (extreme) right it seems, love to emote and feign offence. You have proven in your diatribes in this particular topic that you are so far right you are close to falling off your flat earth.

[Hannibal 5,814]

And the (extreme) right it seems, love to emote and feign offence. You have proven in your diatribes in this particular topic that you are so far right you are close to falling off your flat earth.

Provide examples. Does opining Islam's horrible history of assimilation and intolerance to others make me "extreme right" in your view ?

You throw a label designed to offend, but don't enunciate my "extreme right wing". I'm conservative, not right wing.

Though I must say, you equating Christian intolerances and behavious with Islam is terribly offensive to me. And it makes you look like a NONG.

[hardtack 10,627]

Provide examples. Does opining Islam's horrible history of assimilation and intolerance to others make me "extreme right" in your view ?

You throw a label designed to offend, but don't enunciate my "extreme right wing". I'm conservative, not right wing.

Though I must say, you equating Christian intolerances and behavious with Islam is terribly offensive to me. And it makes you look like a NONG.

You can do the research...but here's a clue... Uganda, Tanzania, children victims in witch hunts, Nigeria, Norway (a recent mass killing you may have heard of carried out by a fundamentalist christian), and the list goes on.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Gee most of the comments in my post deal with the past 40 years or so.

By the way do you often find yourself surrounded by idiots at social functions? Just wondering!

It's funny, I was waiting for an idiot to bring up appalling child abuse by Priests and Brothers and equate it to Islam's intolerance of any other religion and determination to dominate and not assimilate. You win the prize.

Priests and others shocking child abuse has nothing to do with the Christian religion you utter imbecile. It's not theology fool. It's terrible choices by weak people. It's not a directive. That said, the total mishandling of the issue by an out of date clergy was also an utter disgrace. They should hang their heads in shame.

[Hannibal 5,814]

You can do the research...but here's a clue... Uganda, Tanzania, children victims in witch hunts, Nigeria, Norway (a recent mass killing you may have heard of carried out by a fundamentalist christian), and the list goes on.

OK, it seems you're good at this and there's no doubt Africa is a common theme. I would never defend such barbarians. We're in agreement. Christianity in Africa is a different beast. Is that representative of world wide Christianity ? Are there assimilation problems anywhere in the world with Christianity ?

Do me a favour, list all of the problems with Islam and Muslim immigration worldwide. Take your time. Name all of the bombings, other terrorist attacks, countries where Muslims have caused unrest, anarchy, huge unemployment rates, etc. You'll probably need a year, so I'll bookmark the thread.

Edited February 1, 2014 by Hannibal

[daisycutter 29,740]

You are serious? I could start at the Crusades, work my way through the Spanish Inquisition and colonial conquests in the New World all the way to the modern day and the current Royal Commission into child abuse that has shocked everyone. The Christian religions have been up to mischief for centuries. I am not saying Islam is all that better or worse. The problem is organised religions in general. The older I get the more I believe they bring more trouble than whatever good they may deliver. A few years ago we thought Christian organisations did a lot of good caring for children in orphanages, parishes and schools, now we have our doubts.

Note the poster is a baptised Catholic and was educated by the Christian Brothers. I got through that experience unscathed apart from fairly regular strappings. Others suffered much more, some have suicided since. On reflection there were some inspirational brothers but there also some sadists, religious nutters and the pure evil.

you are correct that it is "organised religion" that is a problem, as easily attested by history and your examples

all organisations as they grow become more interested in power and wealth and its attendant corruption. Organised religion is no different.

an even bigger problem with religious organisations is fundamentalism

i would argue (and you might disagree) that christianity in the western world is largely becoming more benign relatively speaking these days, with more and more adherents becoming non-practicing or non-believers. Contrastingly some non-christian religions appear to have a growing fundamentalist component. This gets somewhat conflated wihen the line between religion and state gets blurred

[hardtack 10,627]

OK, it seems you're good at this and there's no doubt Africa is a common theme. I would never defend such barbarians. We're in agreement. Christianity in Africa is a different beast. Is that representative of world wide Christianity ?

Jim Jones and his People's Temple... 300 children and 600 adults effectively murdered

Order of the Solar Temple - mass deaths (murders/suicides) in Canada and Switzerland - and I do treat these suicides as a kind of murder due to the brain washing that has taken place plus the fact that it was take your own life or be shot (much like in Jonestown).

Anders Breivik a fundamentalist christian killed 77 innocent people

Do a little study of the Movement for the Restoration of the Ten Commandments of God in Uganda... and who cares if christianity in Africa is a "different beast"? The fact is that these people are interpreting the word in a way that justifies there appalling offences... much the same way as fundamentalist islamics do. MOST people who follow the islamic faith are peace loving people... you just refuse to acknowledge that.

Even George Bush jnr himself commenced his war on terrorism using similar rhetoric to the people he was attacking... god willing we will prevail. How many innocent people died as a result of the ensuing attacks? (I suppose that good old christian saying "an eye for an eye" applies?) And no, that does not mean I support the attacks on the World Trade Centre (too easy to predict you would probably take that line of logic).

[DemonFrog 1,356]

And the (extreme) right it seems, love to emote and feign offence. You have proven in your diatribes in this particular topic that you are so far right you are close to falling off your flat earth.

[DemonFrog 1,356]

I suggest you do a little searching in relation to some of the christian groups operating in Africa, not to mention Ireland in the recent past and the Crusades in the distant past. The Vatican was built on the spoils of the pillaging and plundering and murder that took place during the Crusades... and they still claim it as their own.

But its Gods will!

[Earl Hood 6,101]

It's funny, I was waiting for an [censored] to bring up appalling child abuse by Priests and Brothers and equate it to Islam's intolerance of any other religion and determination to dominate and not assimilate. You win the prize.

Priests and others shocking child abuse has nothing to do with the Christian religion you utter imbecile. It's not theology fool. It's terrible choices by weak people. It's not a directive. That said, the total mishandling of the issue by an out of date clergy was also an utter disgrace. They should hang their heads in shame.

If priests and other Christian people such as brothers and nuns, all the religious orders who represent, manage and lead don't represent the Christian religion? i think you should cut the Islam religion some slack, don't you think.

If you are going to start on the actual words of both religions you will find they are very similar. How those words are interpretated will differ across time and place.

So you need to delve a bit deeper into the detail to reinforce your opinions. That is all. Stereotyping doesn't help anyone.

[daisycutter 29,740]

If priests and other Christian people such as brothers and nuns, all the religious orders who represent, manage and lead don't represent the Christian religion? i think you should cut the Islam religion some slack, don't you think.

If you are going to start on the actual words of both religions you will find they are very similar. How those words are interpretated will differ across time and place.

So you need to delve a bit deeper into the detail to reinforce your opinions. That is all. Stereotyping doesn't help anyone.

simplistic stereotyping may not be helpful in an argument but neither are arguments of equivalency

if you follow through on an argument of equivalency you could argue that we may as well let criminals migrate here because we already have our own home-grown criminals

which of course is ridiculous

just saying

[Earl Hood 6,101]

simplistic stereotyping may not be helpful in an argument but neither are arguments of equivalency

if you follow through on an argument of equivalency you could argue that we may as well let criminals migrate here because we already have our own home-grown criminals

which of course is ridiculous

just saying

DC at this stage I believe we need LordWeaver to step in and provide advice. God knows we need someone to lead us into the promised land!

[DemonFrog 1,356]

you are correct that it is "organised religion" that is a problem, as easily attested by history and your examples

all organisations as they grow become more interested in power and wealth and its attendant corruption. Organised religion is no different.

an even bigger problem with religious organisations is fundamentalism

i would argue (and you might disagree) that christianity in the western world is largely becoming more benign relatively speaking these days, with more and more adherents becoming non-practicing or non-believers. Contrastingly some non-christian religions appear to have a growing fundamentalist component. This gets somewhat conflated wihen the line between religion and state gets blurred

Not sure that true DC.

What about abortion clinic attacks and the killing of doctors in the US by religions extremist, the war between Catholics and Protestants in Ireland, the hiding of child molesters by the Catholic Church and the secret war of the US born against against Islam just to name a few.

[DemonFrog 1,356]

IMO the real danger to our way of life are these guys

http://www.the-philosopher.co.uk/whocares/popups/warcrimes.htm

[daisycutter 29,740]

Not sure that true DC.

What about abortion clinic attacks and the killing of doctors in the US by religions extremist, the war between Catholics and Protestants in Ireland, the hiding of child molesters by the Catholic Church and the secret war of the US born against against Islam just to name a few.

oh come on frog, you can do better than that

did you miss my deliberate use of the word "relatively"

christianity in the western world is by most measures a dwindling force

dredging up individual instances of christian fuelled incidents is failing to see the forest for the trees

btw talk to an irishman about the current prestige and power of the catholic church in ireland.....it is disintegrated at a rate of knots

[DemonFrog 1,356]

oh come on frog, you can do better than that

did you miss my deliberate use of the word "relatively"

christianity in the western world is by most measures a dwindling force

dredging up individual instances of christian fuelled incidents is failing to see the forest for the trees

btw talk to an irishman about the current prestige and power of the catholic church in ireland.....it is disintegrated at a rate of knots

True I can do better DC

IMO we are not aware of the control/influence the Churches on our day to day lives. Our media focus on telling us the negative of the Islam religion. In my view both religious groups can be good and/or evil. Dangerous extremists are in both religions.

Yes we may not have our hands cut off for stealing in Australia but you may be bashed walking down a street because someone thinks its fun. Local culture is heavily influence by the local religious beliefs.

Society tends to hide its own flaws but highlight those of others.

Our media is very selective and is a vehicle of a select few to shape public beliefs and opinions for their own political views.

The focus on small radical groups seems to be disproportional to the risk and danger. Sure like any other group of dangerous criminals they need to be monitored and the community needs to take a certain level of protection. But the real danger to our way of life does not come from these small groups of so called terrorists.