Missed my subsequent post RR? the one where I qualified my original comment (and your response) with:

"Then again, maybe insinuation (which is what it is... no journo has come out and said "he's lying") is a much harder thing to qualify and prove in terms of legal action.

Yes, he is probably hurt by the insinuations (although I suspect that Schwab may well be exaggerating for the benefit of the press), but there is every possibility he may have a thicker skin than you or I and is prepared to live with those insinuations in the knowledge that he will have the last laugh and that a lot of "highly respected" journos and their "immaculate sources", will be left wiping massive amounts of egg off their faces."

Yep, read your post Hardtack. No doubt it would be a challenging case.

But there comes a point surely when the damage being done outweighs biting your lip and saying nothing.

Many people have sued for far smaller sleights.

Or maybe he does just have a very, very thick skin as you say.

I think he will stay. A lot of journos have been proved wrong already, the ones who said he had already signed with GWS, when it's clear that he hasn't.

Most slander/libel cases are taken to court for two reasons only - remembering that these charges are civil not criminal -the end result being damages awarded

1/ the plaintiff is suing to receive large material damages amount from the slander/libel

2/ the plaintiff is suing with the prime motivation not being to receive damages but to have the reputation restored - usually a "marketing" tactic - shock jocks suing so their listeners know that they didnt lie. Celebrities do this a lot as well - they dont need the money - but for future marketing of their name they need their reps restored

In the broad scheme of things - this isnt an action that anyone would deem worthy of pursuing

The ordeal will be over in a couple months and 'fighting back' as you say, will only make the situation worse, unless you mean he should 'sign' now. That will end the story but that isn't 'fighting back' that is acquiescence to the situation the attackers have caused.

Wait and sign with GWS you are only validating their speculation.

If Tom is telling the truth (which I still believe) the alleged extra GWS $400,000 difference would now be the fee Tom pays for rest of his career for his character to be assassinated ... the speculation & innuendo will never stop.

If Tom has not lied .... his realistic options are now down to 2

1/ MFC

2/ Another club

If he has lied, forced, coached or not ... its GWS.

Barrett & Ox upped the anti on national TV ... However, their "source" is a dead set genius. However, what we are not sure is who the "genius" seeks to assist.

Edited July 15, 201113 yr by hangon007

Even if he goes, your fallback is that he made the decision as stated at the end of the year.

On the other hand ...

You are obsessed with Schwarz and Schwab...

Why bother attacking?

The ordeal will be over in a couple months and 'fighting back' as you say, will only make the situation worse, unless you mean he should 'sign' now. That will end the story but that isn't 'fighting back' that is acquiescence to the situation the attackers have caused.

Not obsessed at all. Just quoting. And enquiring. And digging.

You are the one getting all sensitive about it.

"I believe in Tom" ... who really has the obsession here?

Just for those that have missed an obvious point. Scully has indeed made a demand of the club, that he WONT commit until the end of the season , if inddeed he does. Now some may see this as a nonsense but as its the crux of the matter I hardly see how it is. Many different options come into play at season's end that arent there now that is if there are indeed any real options at all.

As RB, Myself, RR and others have already noted here the environment in which all this is taking place has changed from when the initial gambit of "I wont sign til eos 2011" was announced.

Much about anything in life is the position of one's motive. There must be something terribly terribly important about the timing ( and its associated possibilites) that has Scully/ Velocity adamant about not signing now. Many other players arent taking this repose. They are adjusting as deals and offers are made.

Some wil lsay, well he's entitled to do so. In a fashion I cant disagree. Bu tin theface of all things it really smacks of an ulterior reasoning. What more does he need to know ? He knows what GWS have on the table..He knows what MFC has on the table. Its irrelevant in reality what transpires at the CBA..So again What ?

I hear the deafening silence from those that suggest "all is well" . If there is nothing untoward then there is only benefits to the club and himself to sign now. . He could probably get an instant pay rise in doing so. Irregardless of what the AFL say .. The club would sit easier, the fans would sit easier , the focus would return to footy and this is his want after all...supposedly all about the footy. But he doesnt . Why ?

This kid would make one hell of a poker player !!!

Exactly right. I backed him as telling the truth (and I still believe he was). Circumstances have now changed, the offers are on the table, he knows what his choices are and would know that MFC cannot offer anymore than they already have. So what is holding him back? The only reason I can see now for him not wanting to sign is that he is leaving MFC for GW$. $600K is a lot for a kid barely out of his teenage years who is still yet to really prove himself and has a dodgy knee. If this offer is not good enough and he is holding out for MFC to offer more (potentially costing us players and a premiership down the track) then the club may be better off without him anyway.

That is sad to say as I think he will be a gun (though not sure about him reaching Judd-like status as many have suggested) and seems like a great kid who would be a good influence on others with regards to his preparation and training etc. But the kid needs to consider what is the best outcome for himself AND the club. Just holding out for as much money as possible with no regard for the club is downright greedy and selfish (I am not saying this is what is going on only that it is greedy & selfish if that is what is going on).

I apologise, I thought this was an admission that you realised what your position was implying about the truthfulness of Tom Scully.

I apologise for stating that you took this rational step.

That says everything though doesn't it?

We see this whole saga through our own lens on the world and project our values on Tom.

Edited July 15, 201113 yr by old55

Not obsessed at all. Just quoting. And enquiring. And digging.

You are the one getting all sensitive about it.

"I believe in Tom" ... who really has the obsession here?

A kid is being pilloried.

And accused of being a liar.

If I am to wish he stands up for my club in the future when we need him to, to win a flag, then I will stand up for him now.

And, yes RR, you are digging...

You constantly mention the Schwarz tweet and give nothing more than 'why would he tweet it/say it if he wasn't sure?

I am trusting Tom Scully.

You are trusting whoever is whispering into Schwarz's ear.

Exactly right. I backed him as telling the truth (and I still believe he was). Circumstances have now changed, the offers are on the table, he knows what his choices are and would know that MFC cannot offer anymore than they already have. So what is holding him back? The only reason I can see now for him not wanting to sign is that he is leaving MFC for GW$. $600K is a lot for a kid barely out of his teenage years who is still yet to really prove himself and has a dodgy knee. If this offer is not good enough and he is holding out for MFC to offer more (potentially costing us players and a premiership down the track) then the club may be better off without him anyway.

How about the fact that he said right from the beginning that he will not deal until years end?

That says everything though doesn't it?

We see this whole saga through our own lens on the world and project our values on Tom.

Interesting you wrote that, I have been thinking the same thing this mornign and was going to post it.

Just for those that have missed an obvious point. Scully has indeed made a demand of the club, that he WONT commit until the end of the season , if inddeed he does. Now some may see this as a nonsense but as its the crux of the matter I hardly see how it is. Many different options come into play at season's end that arent there now that is if there are indeed any real options at all.

As RB, Myself, RR and others have already noted here the environment in which all this is taking place has changed from when the initial gambit of "I wont sign til eos 2011" was announced.

Much about anything in life is the position of one's motive. There must be something terribly terribly important about the timing ( and its associated possibilites) that has Scully/ Velocity adamant about not signing now. Many other players arent taking this repose. They are adjusting as deals and offers are made.

Some wil lsay, well he's entitled to do so. In a fashion I cant disagree. Bu tin theface of all things it really smacks of an ulterior reasoning. What more does he need to know ? He knows what GWS have on the table..He knows what MFC has on the table. Its irrelevant in reality what transpires at the CBA..So again What ?

I hear the deafening silence from those that suggest "all is well" . If there is nothing untoward then there is only benefits to the club and himself to sign now. . He could probably get an instant pay rise in doing so. Irregardless of what the AFL say .. The club would sit easier, the fans would sit easier , the focus would return to footy and this is his want after all...supposedly all about the footy. But he doesnt . Why ?

This kid would make one hell of a poker player !!!

Cant argue with any of that - well you can argue with it - however the Scully/Velocity team had a choice of when this will be over - by making their choice that it will be season end they have left themselves open to all the views you have stated.

We see this whole saga through our own lens on the world and project our values on Tom.

That's exactly how I've been thinking about it.

And I am, like I'm sure others are, judging people based on what their values are.

That says everything though doesn't it?

We see this whole saga through our own lens on the world and project our values on Tom.

Well maybe not ... maybe Barrett & Ox just want to believe their "source". They now have a hell of a lot riding on this Scully Saga.

Demonland will want to believe their "source". Other may prefer to believe their "source".

Edited July 15, 201113 yr by hangon007

How about the fact that he said right from the beginning that he will not deal until years end?

If he'd rather be stubborn about it to the point of being detrimental to the club then good luck to him.

Why would players want to wait until after the season? So they can negotiate a better deal. If we've already offered our best deal and he knows what else is on the table from GW$ then what is the point of waiting longer? The only reason would be to decide whether he actually wants to play for MFC next year or that he has already made up his mind and will be signing with GW$.

This is why the Sylvia case is different. Sylvia is negotiating a new contract. Tom already has the ebst offer we can afford which would make him close to if not the highest paid player at our club eclipsing guys like Davey & Green who also stalled talks til the last second to get to the $550-$600K mark. If being the highest paid player in his third year is not enough then I wouldn't want to compromise the team anymore.

There really isn't much of a decision left to make and I'm sure he would have been pondering all year whether he wants to move interstate and whether he would sacrifice a few hundred K's to stay at MFC. If he wants to stay with us all he has to do is sign now with our best offer on the table. If he doesn't sign in the next fortnight or at least come out and say he wants to stay at MFC and make an in principle agreement then sorry but he's gone. If guys like Kreuzer, Swan etc can commit what is stopping Scully?

Well maybe not ... maybe Barrett & Ox just want to believe their "source". They now have a hell of a lot riding on this Scully Saga.

Demonland will want to believe their "source". Other may prefer to believe their "source".

Confirmation bias states that we look for information that supports our existing beliefs.

I don't think it's a matter of people on here believing their "source," I think it's a matter of people finding a source that supports what they already believe - a reflection of their values and beliefs.

A kid is being pilloried.

And accused of being a liar.

If I am to wish he stands up for my club in the future when we need him to, to win a flag, then I will stand up for him now.

And, yes RR, you are digging...

You constantly mention the Schwarz tweet and give nothing more than 'why would he tweet it/say it if he wasn't sure?

I am trusting Tom Scully.

You are trusting whoever is whispering into Schwarz's ear.

wow a gift that just keeps giving!!! dont mean to be a smartarse but are we over-inflating our abilities to make a difference or exact change?

That says everything though doesn't it?

We see this whole saga through our own lens on the world and project our values on Tom.

What are your values? Mine are truth, honesty and integrity.

And I try to view to life and events through a clear set of specs, not rose-tinted ones.

How about the fact that he said right from the beginning that he will not deal until years end?

Thats fair and reasonable - unfortunately due to Velocity's strategic choice of timelines (as opposed to what other players have done) they have left themselves open to negative views.

I am ascribing to the what will be will be position, but fully understand a lot of the negativity. By waiting until end of the contract and knowing that there are other parties interested you leave yourself open to the negative views.

Just for those that have missed an obvious point. Scully has indeed made a demand of the club, that he WONT commit until the end of the season , if inddeed he does. Now some may see this as a nonsense but as its the crux of the matter I hardly see how it is. Many different options come into play at season's end that arent there now that is if there are indeed any real options at all.

As RB, Myself, RR and others have already noted here the environment in which all this is taking place has changed from when the initial gambit of "I wont sign til eos 2011" was announced.

Much about anything in life is the position of one's motive. There must be something terribly terribly important about the timing ( and its associated possibilites) that has Scully/ Velocity adamant about not signing now. Many other players arent taking this repose. They are adjusting as deals and offers are made.

Some wil lsay, well he's entitled to do so. In a fashion I cant disagree. Bu tin theface of all things it really smacks of an ulterior reasoning. What more does he need to know ? He knows what GWS have on the table..He knows what MFC has on the table. Its irrelevant in reality what transpires at the CBA..So again What ?

I hear the deafening silence from those that suggest "all is well" . If there is nothing untoward then there is only benefits to the club and himself to sign now. . He could probably get an instant pay rise in doing so. Irregardless of what the AFL say .. The club would sit easier, the fans would sit easier , the focus would return to footy and this is his want after all...supposedly all about the footy. But he doesnt . Why ?

This kid would make one hell of a poker player !!!

He didn't demand a think stated he doesn't want to discuss contracts until the end of the year, he never said he won't play unless you pay me XXXX for all you know Tom may have been comfortable playing for 300K next season but the club has decided he is worth more.... get it the CLUB made the offer

He also has requested not to know the GWS offer (besides the media reports) his management have told him it is substantial and it is worth consideration they have not sent him the offer (I know you are going to say this doesn't happen in the real world but you'll need to back that up as I can). This is so he doesn't have to consider it and let it interfere with football of course rounds 23 and 24 he'll start going over the details.

The kid may have to knock back 400K a year to play with Melbourne which is a huge possibility so don't you think he wants to take his time to ensure that is the right decision for him as there will never be another situation like this (with hugely inflated salary caps as even in free agency all the clubs will have a salary cap they are 92.5% committed to)

A kid is being pilloried.

And accused of being a liar.

If I am to wish he stands up for my club in the future when we need him to, to win a flag, then I will stand up for him now.

And, yes RR, you are digging...

You constantly mention the Schwarz tweet and give nothing more than 'why would he tweet it/say it if he wasn't sure?

I am trusting Tom Scully.

You are trusting whoever is whispering into Schwarz's ear.

How noble of you Sir Lancelot!

I've mentioned the Schwarz tweet because of the outright revealing nature of it.

How about the Barrett declaration on the Footy Show last night? You're not to keen to acknowledge that are you ...

As someone said earlier, he really upped the anti with that one!

What are your values? Mine are truth, honesty and integrity.

And I try to view to life and events through a clear set of specs, not rose-tinted ones.

Coming back to rose tinted glasses?!

Are you joking?

lol

You think the kid is lying. You won't even admit that is what you think. Your argument is as slippery as Gubby Allan's flesh.

And who are you to accuse Tom Scully that his values are not of "truth, honesty, and integrity?"

Can someone fill me in with what was actually said by Barrett? Was too busy watching the Pyrenees...

wow a gift that just keeps giving!!! dont mean to be a smartarse but are we over-inflating our abilities to make a difference or exact change?

You can't call a kid a liar and then clap him 3 years later.

I don't think he has lied, and, assuming he signs for us in September, I expect great things from him at the Dees.

The end.

How noble of you Sir Lancelot!

I've mentioned the Schwarz tweet because of the outright revealing nature of it.

How about the Barrett declaration on the Footy Show last night? You're not to keen to acknowledge that are you ...

As someone said earlier, he really upped the anti with that one!

Jeez, your argument is simply all about what journalist infer from their 'inside words' isn't it?

You trust them implicitly.

Good for you.

I don't trust them, because I know how journos operate and I know how sources can be nuclear.

I am trusting the actual words of Tom Scully.

You are trusting those that whisper quietly into the ears of hungry journalists that realise there are no repercussions to their stories being bullsh!t.

Look at Hutchy people, the guy gets so much wrong, is constantly demeaned for being wrong, yet he owns his own media company, hosts a footy show, and is constantly 'making' the news.

If Tom is lying, he will live a professional 'half-life' (to steal a quote from Harry Potter) and be maligned and quite toxic for some time.

If Barrett/Schwarz are not right (if his sources are lying) they can hide behind those sources.