Professionalism as well, but I think you're guilty of a bit of groupthink.

His kicking over 40m may be hit & miss, but at close range his disposal is pretty good imo.

He is good at feeding the ball out to teammates.

Mum told me I need to think for myself, I should have listened.

He's 25, not 30. Did anyone see how good he was in the GF ?

Apparently a large number of rather hysterical Saints fans didn't, given their attacks on his attitude, work ethic and performance in that match......

He also seems to owe everyone at Moorabbin, including the coach who doesn't seem to want to play him, an apology for wanting to leave and knowing it prior to the Grand Final.

And because of this he therefore wasn't fully committed to the cause of winning, thus (maybe even singularly) causing the loss .

Personally watching him play in that match dispelled any doubts I may have had about him prior to seeing it.

I'm with H, I hope we get him (but definitely via the PSD) !!!

Apparently a large number of rather hysterical Saints fans didn't, given their attacks on his attitude, work ethic and performance in that match......

He also seems to owe everyone at Moorabbin, including the coach who doesn't seem to want to play him, an apology for wanting to leave and knowing it prior to the Grand Final.

And because of this he therefore wasn't fully committed to the cause of winning, thus (maybe even singularly) causing the loss .

Personally watching him play in that match dispelled any doubts I may have had about him prior to seeing it.

I'm with H, I hope we get him (but definitely via the PSD) !!!

Why was he Frozen out? This is the Crux of the Matter. Luke Ball used to be bandaged up every week for the Saints-Fearless.

The MFC must try & get this whole scenario out of Luke, then is he motivated to show the aints that they were so wrong.

This sounds a bit like an old Mutiny Down at Linton St.. Like '97 they Blamed Shanners & we got Him. To be a fly on the wall.

Why was he Frozen out? This is the Crux of the Matter. Luke Ball used to be bandaged up every week for the Saints-Fearless.

The MFC must try & get this whole scenario out of Luke, then is he motivated to show the aints that they were so wrong.

This sounds a bit like an old Mutiny Down at Linton St.. Like '97 they Blamed Shanners & we got Him. To be a fly on the wall.

Who gives a royal fruit tingle about what happen at St Kilda with Ball?

The only question MFC need Ball to answer is whether he will commit to MFC. If so the only way he is to come to MFC is via the PSD. Completely counterproductive for all parties (Ball and MFC) if we sacrifice a pick for him. If not, I could not give a stuff about him and he can rot where he finishes up.

Getting Ball will be far bigger than Shanahan. The equivalent to Shanners is picking up Max Hughdon in this years pre season draft

Apparently a large number of rather hysterical Saints fans didn't, given their attacks on his attitude, work ethic and performance in that match......

He also seems to owe everyone at Moorabbin, including the coach who doesn't seem to want to play him, an apology for wanting to leave and knowing it prior to the Grand Final.

And because of this he therefore wasn't fully committed to the cause of winning, thus (maybe even singularly) causing the loss .

Personally watching him play in that match dispelled any doubts I may have had about him prior to seeing it.

I'm with H, I hope we get him (but definitely via the PSD) !!!

Hey QueenC, we've missed you this season over at Saintsational.com.

I realize that many of you won't be interested in my perspective on Luke Ball and his worth to MFC but I offer it for the few who might.

Luke Ball may be very good for you if you can get him.

He is quite possibly the best tackler in the AFL - a tackling machine.

He is a brilliant clearance player - in the top 5 of the AFL.

He is astute.

He is a great leader by both word and deed.

BUT

He is not the player he was in 2005 when he was Captain, B&F winner and AA.

Tragically he has been cruelled by OP.

When he was drafted by St Kilda he was deceptively quick and a beautiful kick (either side) over reasonable distance.

Maybe his OP problems are behind him? Maybe not?

St Kilda obviously felt he had a role to play by offering him a new 3 year contract - at half of what he earned this year as a result of a back-ended deal signed when he was AA etc.

The contract he was offered reflected the value St Kilda felt he had.

He had his best ore-season for years.

BUT he struggled to recover from games, taking up to 3 days before he was ok. This effected his ability to train and maintain his fitness base. The result of that was his inability to get to contests, a no-no under the current game-plan at St Kilda. Hence his game time started to drop.

If Melbourne are going to adopt a similar game style (or variant) and his OP hasn't been fixed, then he will again struggle from about mid-season.

The Grand Final showed both the best and worst of him. At the start of the game he was brillaint. As the game wore on he tired.

I hope everything works out for him (except when you play the Saints) but I also hope that he doesn't become your 'whipping boy' on here becasue your expectations were raised far too high as to what he can provide.

And another cautionary note.

I've seen a number of posters mentioning that Paul Connors would assist MFC in some way.

Be in no doubt that Connors thinks only of Connors' interests. His clients come second and the Club doesn't enbter into the equasion.

Luke Ball is not at Collingwood because of Connors.

Collingwood had pick 14 earmarked for the deal until Connors turned up with another client of his, Darren Jolly, and Collingwood used the pick for him.

How much value was Connors to MFC when the 'Judd circus' was travelling around? The charade that passed as an 'interview process' was a complete sham. Engineered by Connors.

He is a player manager first, second and last. Whether he went to Xavier, Brighton Tech or didn't go to school at all has nothing to do with the way he operates.

God help you if Carlton or Collingwood need a full-forward wehn Jack Watts' contract comes up for negotiation. Watch the leaks through the media about other Clubs throwing bucketlaods of maoney at him to leave. It's his m.o.

Thanks for your time and I apologise for interupting your discussion.

Hey QueenC, we've missed you this season over at Saintsational.com.

I realize that many of you won't be interested in my perspective on Luke Ball and his worth to MFC but I offer it for the few who might.........

........Thanks for your time and I apologise for interupting your discussion.

No need to apologise Mr Magic, your insight is always welcome.....

I must admit I was astounded to read some of the comments regarding Ball on Saintsational, especially after his excellent GF.

I know it is hard when a player chooses to leave, but there seemed to be a lot of negative hysteria (for want of a better word).

What are your thoughts?

Thanks also for your input Mr Magic. You've confirmed my view that the beat strategy to attract Ball to the club is based not only on looking after him financially (and I wouldn't worry about his manager - they all do what they have to do, bless their hearts) but also on convincing him that we have the programmes in place to ensure that when he runs out onto the field he will be as healthy and as well prepared as possible. Money is important but a player has to comfortable in his environment for whatever period he's going to stay at a club.

On our lack of recent success, we haven't had as long and as sustained a recent period of failure as the Blues had when they snared Chris Judd. Ball should also be made aware of the role he would be assuming in the club's revival in much the same way that Judd did when he arrived at Carlton two years ago.

If Ball is not convinced to throw his lot in with us unconditionally (i.e by nominating for the PSD) after all that then we look elsewhere.

No need to apologise Mr Magic, your insight is always welcome.....

I must admit I was astounded to read some of the comments regarding Ball on Saintsational, especially after his excellent GF.

I know it is hard when a player chooses to leave, but there seemed to be a lot of negative hysteria (for want of a better word).

What are your thoughts?

I'm bitterly disappointed in Luke, his manager and his family.

I have no issue with a player wanting to leave his CLub.

I have no doubt that Connors told Ball in June, when St Kilda offered him the new contract, that he could get more, either form another CLub or by forcing up the offer from St Kilda.

I believe Connors shopped around and got interest from Collingwood.

About 8 weeks ago Greg Denham wrote an article that Collingwood were interested in Luke Ball

About 6 weeks ago Denham wrote another article stating that Collingwood were prepared to offer Ball $500,000 per season, well above the St Kilda offer.

Both of these articles claimed 'sources close to Ball' and can only have been Connors or Ball's family.

Neither of these articles seemed to impress st Kilda enough to improve their offer to Ball.

Fine, no problem he can choose to go.

Then during trade week we had, on successive days, the following reasons for Ball's request for a trade:-

St Kilda offered more money than Collingwood - patently untrue

I want more game time - doesn't seem to make sense?

It's untenable at St Kilda with Lyon - only 2 weeks after he publicly was extoliing the great input, assistance and work all teh coaches had given him?

I personally don't believe any of them. I think the driving force is the contract value from Collingwood which now has zero value becasue Collingwood chose not to make the deal with St Kilda.

They offered nothing that St Kilda would accept as a trade. Pick #25 was useless and they knew it.

St Kilda needed a pick below 21 to on-trade to the Bulldogs for Everitt.

Connor's kyboshed the Ball deal when Hawthorn declined Jolly and he subsequently took Jolly to Collingwood.

How much was he thinking of Ball then?

I'm personally annoyed at Ball's reluctance to 'admit the truth'', much as Melbourne supporters are about McLean's bullshyte reasons as to why he defected to Carlton.

Frankly I would have expected more honesty from him, but maybe he is under the influence of his manager and family?

But all of the above is only my perspective from piecing together the various reports and leaks and looking at them logically.

I'm certainly not in the majority over at Saintsational. But then again I wasn't on Ben Cousins either, as you may well remember!

But all of the above is only my perspective from piecing together the various reports and leaks and looking at them logically.

I'm certainly not in the majority over at Saintsational. But then again I wasn't on Ben Cousins either, as you may well remember!

I most certainly do !!!

Who gives a royal fruit tingle about what happen at St Kilda with Ball?

The only question MFC need Ball to answer is whether he will commit to MFC. If so the only way he is to come to MFC is via the PSD. Completely counterproductive for all parties (Ball and MFC) if we sacrifice a pick for him. If not, I could not give a stuff about him and he can rot where he finishes up.

Getting Ball will be far bigger than Shanahan. The equivalent to Shanners is picking up Max Hughdon in this years pre season draft

Nothing Wrong in knowing the Full story RR if you want to know How strong & committed a player is.

I would only take him in the PSD aswell. He wants to walk away, we grab him.

There is a difference between being Angry at his Former club & being [censored] off.

The OP will have to be checked out-this worries me but i'm sure the FD will be onto that.

Shanners was alright for '98. As i said elsewhere, he had a point to prove, as will Luke Ball if he wants to....

I think we go overboard with the analysis.

LB thought he was undervalued for various reasons, he wanted to go.

BM thought the same, and is gone.

Rischitelli thinks the same, and is punching a effigy of Voss as we speak.

Money plays a part. Wow, there is a epiphany. Who doesn't care about money?

Opportunity is another aspect. Everyone wants to play on their own terms.

D!ckhead player agents have been around since pro-sports started.

In conclusion, sh!t happens.