My thinking precisely, the midfield is the immediate priority to be addressed, the others which could be addressed are the KPF and Ruck posts. I know you refer to it 'as some stage', but if things fall into place these could be addressed or at least strengthened sooner than we think.

We can always trade a pick for a good ruckman down the track, but good KPF are rare and difficult to obtain.

Its kinda like finding a large diamond in a rubbish bin i guess....

How the hell am I not showing Jurrah or Watts enough respect when I just gave Watts one of the biggest wraps of all time, and said that Jurrah was dynamic enough to be pushed through the middle as well???

Jurrah is 189cm's thats not KP height in anyone's book. He's undersized for a KPP, any reasonable person would admit that much...I also did 'explicitly' say that Watts will spend his share of time up forward. As for the last thing, we may not get the KPP player we're looking for at 18, cause there's no KPP depth in this draft as has been well documented...

That's exactly what I mean about Jurrah.....Have you seen him JUMP? He can play like a KPP because he can jump so high. You have seen the marks that he has taken already surely?

Jurrah = 191 cm

Whats 6cm in height (Butcher 197) when Jurrah could probley jump 20 cm more in a verticle leap. Like I said there is NOT MUCH to gain by getting a risk in Butcher compared to getting Trengove and possibly get Panos as well.

Edited August 11, 200916 yr by Mr Morton

Thanks. The O it is.

This has been discussed on another two threads. In relation to Moloney, McLean & Jones. With the possible drafting of Scully & Trengove.

I know you can never have enough midfielders, do you think there is enough room for Moloney, McLean & Jones in the team...or is it possible they can find new tasks within the team? Or is there even a possibility one of them could be squeezed out for a possible trade?

HT I believe there is enough room for Moloney, McLean and Jones, however they need to add further attacking skills to the arsenal. They are arguably our toughest midfielders, with all three placing great tackling pressure on opponents, but it is their inability to hurt their opponents with their speed, ball caring ability and their goal scoring ability. Whilst I'd be disappointed to see any of them go, I think we need to see another year of them injury free at the Dee's, especially considering the restrictions to Moloney and McLean.

If it came to forcing one of them off the list for a trade, personally I'd suggest Jones would be the most suitable due to the flexibility, foot skills and speed of Moloney and McLean compared with Jones. In addition we all know how damaging an injury free McLean is and we've also seen the development in Moloney too now that he has gotten over those injury worries. That being said, I wouldn't consider a trade until 2010 when the GC picks will be worth their weight in gold.

Edited August 11, 200916 yr by The O

That's exactly what I mean about Jurrah.....Have you seen him JUMP? He can play like a KPP because he can jump so high. You have seen the marks that he has taken already surely?

Jurrah = 191 cm

Whats 6cm in height (Butcher 197) when Jurrah could probley jump 20 cm more in a verticle leap. Like I said there is NOT MUCH to gain by getting a risk in Butcher compared to getting Trengove and possibly get Panos as well.

Mr Morton, would you consider a 3 pronged mobile "mid" half forward line instead of the traditional KPP?

I could see a half forward line where Sylvia, Morton/Green and Jurrah would certainly work well, whereby Sylvia, Green and Morton could rotate into the midfield at times giving Bate, Davey and maybe Martin chances to rotate through.

Mr Morton, would you consider a 3 pronged mobile "mid" half forward line instead of the traditional KPP?

I could see a half forward line where Sylvia, Morton/Green and Jurrah would certainly work well, whereby Sylvia, Green and Morton could rotate into the midfield at times giving Bate, Davey and maybe Martin chances to rotate through.

Yes I think it is what will happen. I think other's are saying they would like a 'Stay at home' forward though.

ha ha...

Christ, we've got the funny pants on today haven't we??

I did say Roughead 'type', type being the key word...I didn't say, 'I WANT TO SEE US RECRUIT THE NEXT RIEWOLDT RIGHT NOW!!!!'

sheesh. tough crowd...

FWIW I do have sympathy with what you want - I agree that a tall contested marking type would complement Watts and Jurrah and make all 3 that much more dangerous. I also agree that they're very hard to come by and if you've got early picks that's the place to get them. But I definitely don't want us to take a strong KPF at 2 just because the need is there if they're not guaranteed to be a star. I know it's hard to compare mids and KPFs if they're both quality but it's not hard to compare stars and players with question marks - it sounds like a midfielders draft and it sounds like we can get a star mid at 2.

Which ever way the club goes it will improve our team. The hardest thing now is to find 5-7 players to delist, Valenti will not be promoted but Spencer will, if Whelan, Robbo, Mcdonald retire, I think Cam Bruce will be the only player that can be promoted to veteran status, that opens 2 spots on our list and an additional rookie spot, you would expect the club to use picks 1,2,18,34,50 and more than likely PSD pick 1, six new players plus Spencer, 7 spots needed on our senior list. There will be some tough calls made.

6 of one, half a dozen of the other....

We will have a fantastic draft this year, no doubt. 3 top 20 picks, 2 top 3....we're going to recruit some gun players. Do we get a gun mid at 2 and good KPF at 18, or a gun KPF at 2 and a good mid at 18? There's not much difference IMO. We'll still get three top players to help us to our next flag tilt.

Edited August 11, 200916 yr by Stop: Jurrahtime

The hardest thing now is to find 5-7 players to delist

You are kidding right? can't find 5-7 players to get rid of??? There is a reason why we are last on the ladder. Off the top of my head players like Bartram, Bell, Buckley, Johnson, McDonald (retire), Miller, Newton, Robertson, Spencer, Wheatley and Whelan (retire) will consider themselves lucky to be on our list next year. There's 11 right there and Valenti should be promoted from the rookie list.

There's still a lot of old and dead wood that needs to be shipped out before we become more than an average side, as we can't afford to have too many passengers on our list. All of the above, besides the proposed retirees are just that. That is still a quarter of our entire list that is not up to scratch.

You are kidding right? can't find 5-7 players to get rid of??? There is a reason why we are last on the ladder. Off the top of my head players like Bartram, Bell, Buckley, Johnson, McDonald (retire), Miller, Newton, Robertson, Spencer, Wheatley and Whelan (retire) will consider themselves lucky to be on our list next year. There's 11 right there and Valenti should be promoted from the rookie list.

There's still a lot of old and dead wood that needs to be shipped out before we become more than an average side, as we can't afford to have too many passengers on our list. All of the above, besides the proposed retirees are just that. That is still a quarter of our entire list that is not up to scratch.

Your candidates for delistings,

Bartram - no

Bell - yes

Buckley - no way

Johnson - yes

McDonald - defs retire

Miller - probably

Newton - yes

Robbo - sorry mate, retire

Spencer - are you kidding???

Wheatley - yes/trade

Whelan - retire

A bit harsh on Bartram, Buckley and Spencer. I think we'll keep one of Miller and Newton, preferably Miller. To have a reasonable discussion on list changes, we need to see contracts.....does anybody know of any site where all player contracts are detailed?

Then what is Jones?

Swallow is a 'little' overrated personally. He and Jones are the same sort of players. Swallow kicks a few more goals thats it really, Swallow 22 and Jones 21.

Incorrect IMO.

Swallow is a much better footballer than Jones because he can hit targets consistently under pressure. Jones has the ability to win the ball at stoppages but is not polished enough with his disposals. Id be very interested to find out how many turnovers Jones has had that resulted in a score for the opposition. I will endeavor to source this information and get back to you.

Edited August 11, 200916 yr by twist

Your candidates for delistings,

Bartram - no

Bell - yes

Buckley - no way

Johnson - yes

McDonald - defs retire

Miller - probably

Newton - yes

Robbo - sorry mate, retire

Spencer - are you kidding???

Wheatley - yes/trade

Whelan - retire

A bit harsh on Bartram, Buckley and Spencer. I think we'll keep one of Miller and Newton, preferably Miller. To have a reasonable discussion on list changes, we need to see contracts.....does anybody know of any site where all player contracts are detailed?

Newton is contracted next year, you should know that.

Newton is contracted next year, you should know that.

I knew that but where do the rest stand?

A bit harsh on Bartram, Buckley and Spencer.

OK i knew someone was going to inquire about Spencer. My reasoning for this is because he is not tough enough, can't kick or handball, is slow around the grounds and he has no instincts for the game of AFL. Sure he's a young KPP from QLD, but seriously, there needs to be at least some talent and skill at kicking the football, he has none as far as i'm concerned. Development coaches can change a technique to kick the ball longer or with more penetration, but they can't teach a fella how to kick, they must be able to do that before arriving at the club. All Spencer has is height, and IMO will not make it as an AFL player, that's just my opinion.

Buckley's disposal is questionable at best. Sure he has pace, but too often he gets it and runs into trouble, turns it over or just doesn't know what to do with it so he just kicks in hope.

As for Bartram, his disposal is also very questionable and Bennell has overtaken him in the back pocket role by a fair margin. Dunn is a better run with player as well IMO.

There, my reasoning for all 3. I just don't rate them as highly as others. They aren't all going to get cut, as i listed 11 potential players that could.

Newton is contracted next year, you should know that.

He can be our donation to the GC.

That's exactly what I mean about Jurrah.....Have you seen him JUMP? He can play like a KPP because he can jump so high. You have seen the marks that he has taken already surely?

Jurrah = 191 cm

Whats 6cm in height (Butcher 197) when Jurrah could probley jump 20 cm more in a verticle leap. Like I said there is NOT MUCH to gain by getting a risk in Butcher compared to getting Trengove and possibly get Panos as well.

He's about 1 cm taller than what I am. I've stood next to Riewoldt, Koschitzke & Jonathon Brown - those guys are massive. It's not just height, its also body mass. He's 81kg's!! Most midfielder's weigh more than that..You need ' body size' in a forwardline too.

He ain't a KPP. I've seen how he can jump, and I know all about his athleticism, and yes, despite the fact you might think i'm living on another planet, i 'have seen his marks, but you're having a lend if you think he's a KPP.

This debate is going nowhere i'm afraid. :D

FWIW I do have sympathy with what you want - I agree that a tall contested marking type would complement Watts and Jurrah and make all 3 that much more dangerous. I also agree that they're very hard to come by and if you've got early picks that's the place to get them. But I definitely don't want us to take a strong KPF at 2 just because the need is there if they're not guaranteed to be a star. I know it's hard to compare mids and KPFs if they're both quality but it's not hard to compare stars and players with question marks - it sounds like a midfielders draft and it sounds like we can get a star mid at 2.

Ok. I was just throwing the possibility out there, cause there seems to be a bit of consensus here that Trengove is the go for pick 2. Others seem a bit more divided as to where he'll go. I've heard Trengove spruiked anywhere from pick 2, to a solid top 10 choice. So we'll just have to wait and see I guess..

I'm just not sure we're going to have much of a chance to get a decent KPP at pick 18, cause as you say, there's a lot more depth in the mids.

I knew that but where do the rest stand?

Johnson, Newton and Bell are all conracted for 2010. Meaning unless we can get a trade for them, it's likely they'll all still be on the list next year. The club is financially in no position to be paying out player contracts early.

I feel for valenti because he is such a hard worker, but we have too many similar players in the valenti mould, and with the inclusions of most liklely scully and trengove i cant see him getting a game in the future and will probably fall behind the pack. Shane would probably find this very frustrating and would probably get better oppurtunities else where. i reckon the club should trade him off (read somewhere there might be trades for rookies?) and give him the real oppurtunity he deserves.

Your a hard man JTR...

I'd like to see Brock play next year with a full-preseason under his belt (inc.sprint training).

He'll come good if he can. I'm just concerned that the injuries have taken their toll like they have on Luke Ball.

We couldn't really get rid of Brock could we??? Not after the $10,000 donation and all...

it mite be hard TANK, obviously with his passion for the club he deserves more chances, but personally IMO the games passed him by at a very early age, his vision and awerness is not up to afl standard,he mite have donated 10000 but his wage would be 400,000, thats a big descrepancy.

I feel for valenti because he is such a hard worker, but we have too many similar players in the valenti mould, and with the inclusions of most liklely scully and trengove i cant see him getting a game in the future and will probably fall behind the pack. Shane would probably find this very frustrating and would probably get better oppurtunities else where. i reckon the club should trade him off (read somewhere there might be trades for rookies?) and give him the real oppurtunity he deserves.

I dont want to turn this thread into a discussion about valenti, though how i see it is its a choice between our latest pic (around 50s) in a compromised draft or shane valenti who against nrth showned his a good footballer.

I hope he gets elevated!

You are kidding right? can't find 5-7 players to get rid of??? There is a reason why we are last on the ladder. Off the top of my head players like Bartram, Bell, Buckley, Johnson, McDonald (retire), Miller, Newton, Robertson, Spencer, Wheatley and Whelan (retire) will consider themselves lucky to be on our list next year. There's 11 right there and Valenti should be promoted from the rookie list.

There's still a lot of old and dead wood that needs to be shipped out before we become more than an average side, as we can't afford to have too many passengers on our list. All of the above, besides the proposed retirees are just that. That is still a quarter of our entire list that is not up to scratch.

Bartram agree but borderline

Bell Agree but wouldn't be supprised if kept

Buckley no way

PJ can't if we do it leaves us with Martin, Spencer and Jamar, Martin is a better positional player and shouldn't be rucked

Mcdonald, Robbo, Whelan only creates 2 spots on our list

Newton I believe he is contracted

Spencer not on the list still a rookie

Wheatley IMO can still offer something

Miller only strong body forward we have.

For people to believe that Valenti will be on our list next year they are dreaming, this will not happen, I like the way he plays but he will not be a part of our future, I hope another club gets him but he won't be a demon next year.

Buckley's disposal is questionable at best. Sure he has pace, but too often he gets it and runs into trouble, turns it over or just doesn't know what to do with it so he just kicks in hope.

I'm yet to make up my mind on Buckley and if he's delisted I won't lose any sleep. Having said that look at it another way. Buckley runs hard and fast, takes possession of the pill, looks up and has absolutely nothing to kick or handball too, so he kicks long. His fault or the fault of a team that over the last 2 years has had no structure for this kind of fast movement. Just a thought.

Personally, if he's upto a full preseason I think they should retain him for 1 more year.

Bartram - Don't mind either way

Bell - Gone

Buckley - as above post

PJ - Hope he goes

Mcdonald, Robbo, Whelan - Retire

Newton - Pay him out and f##k him off

Spencer - must retain

Wheatley - Retire or move on

Miller - keep, just. What has happened to him. He looks terrible at the moment.

Valenti - gone

I don't mind Valenti, but i can't see the club elevating him to the senior list next year unless one of Jones or McLean (or even Moloney) is moved on. And with the likely inclusions of Scully and possibly one of Trengove/Morabito/Rohan, it makes it even more difficult for him. With his height and pace deficiencies, and the fact he couldn't crack a regular game at the 16th placed club, his value in a trade is zero.

Unfortunate, but unless he does something really SPECIAL before the end of the season (like for instance, the 37-disposal 4-goal effort of Col Sylvia against Hawthorn), it'll be all over for him. Another club might like to take him with a very late pick as backup depth, but that is even more unlikely than us elevating him.