Not to bring everyone down, but, the AFL is a socialist organisation. We must delist three players from our main list at the end of the year.

23. McDonald, James* 32 --- last year

33. Robertson, Russell* 30 ---- ??? poss' last year / wear 'n' tear

7. Bruce, Cameron 29 --------???? poss' last year / shins

39. Whelan, Matthew 29 ---- ???? ??? poss' last year / wear 'n' tear

14. Green, Brad 27

38. Wheatley, Paul 27

--------------------------------------------

10. Davey, Aaron 25

16. Jamar, Mark 25

27. Miller, Brad 25

18. Johnson, Paul 24

28. Moloney, Brent 24

32. Rivers, Jared 24

36. Warnock, Matthew 24

4. Bell, Daniel 23 --- ??? Poss trade

35. Sylvia, Colin 23

22. Martin, Stefan 22

24. McLean, Brock 22

26. Meesen, John 22 --- ??? Poss delist

3. Bate, Matthew 21

8. Buckley, Simon 21

11. Dunn, Lynden 21

30. Newton, Michael 21 --- ??? Poss delist

1. Bail, Rohan 20

2. Bartram, Clint 20

12. Frawley, James 20

13. Garland, Colin 20

19. Jones, Nathan 20

20. Jurrah, Liam 20

31. Petterd, Ricky 20

40. Wonaeamirri, Austin 20

9. Cheney, Kyle 19

15. Grimes, Jack 19

5. Bennell, Jamie 18

17. Jetta, Neville 18

21. Maric, Addam 18

25. McNamara, Tom 18

29. Morton, Cale 18

34. Strauss, James 18

6. Blease, Sam 17

37. Watts, Jack 17

Both Newton and Meesen are contracted for 2010.

Someone would trade for Bell??? 4th/5th rounder??? Doubt it.

I believe the AFL is considering making the enforced deletions 2 and not 3 while GC17 and WS are getting started.

Robbo, Macca, and Wheels would make way. Bell, Meesen, Frawley, Batram and Cheney would be on soft ground.

Pretty certain all are OOC, I'm reasonably certain we didn't give Meesen a 3 year contract but not entirely.

And injuries may bring the end for Moloney and Rivers ahead of time.

Surely if Meeson doesn't deliver again we should try to pay him out. I've noticed Jamar amongst other peoples' delistings.

Problem is that we have made no attempt to find ruckmen to replace them - even in the rookie draft .... although 4 or 5 went to other clubs after our last pick. GC17 will snap up the top 2 or 3 ruckmen next year.

Do we actually believe that Jamar, PJ, Meeson and Spencer will form a premiership ruck combination.

Both Newton and Meesen are contracted for 2010.

Someone would trade for Bell??? 4th/5th rounder??? Doubt it.

Fair Dinkum we are yet to put this puppy to rest. It is my understanding that Meesen was put on a two year contract.

Even on the Demonland PLAYER CONTRACTS thread that was pinned for a while we have his contract until: October 2009.

I am willing to be corrected but Meesen has ONE year to go on his contract.

Please view:

http://forums.demonland.com/index.php?show...layer+contracts

I believe the AFL is considering making the enforced deletions 2 and not 3 while GC17 and WS are getting started.

Where did you hear this? I would love it to be true.

Fair Dinkum we are yet to put this puppy to rest. It is my understanding that Meesen was put on a two year contract.

Even on the Demonland PLAYER CONTRACTS thread that was pinned for a while we have his contract until: October 2009.

I am willing to be corrected but Meesen has ONE year to go on his contract.

Please view:

http://forums.demonland.com/index.php?show...layer+contracts

That was always my understanding as well, he was taken on a 2yr contract of which he 1 yr to run. Unless he finds regular snr football I think he will be gone.

Fair Dinkum we are yet to put this puppy to rest. It is my understanding that Meesen was put on a two year contract.

Even on the Demonland PLAYER CONTRACTS thread that was pinned for a while we have his contract until: October 2009.

I am willing to be corrected but Meesen has ONE year to go on his contract.

Please view:

http://forums.demonland.com/index.php?show...layer+contracts

Then stand corrected.

He is contracted until 2010.

Then stand corrected.

He is contracted until 2010.

has his original contract changed or was he always on a 3yr deal?

has his original contract changed or was he always on a 3yr deal?

He signed on for 3 years.

Do we actually believe that Jamar, PJ, Meeson and Spencer will form a premiership ruck combination.

Dunno, did you think Campbell, Taylor and Renouf would at the start of 2007.

BTW "yes" is lying.

It's great! One day after our list is finalised for 2009 the thread evolves to who we're going to delist or trade - how about we wait 9 months or so?

Dunno, did you think Campbell, Taylor and Renouf would at the start of 2007.

BTW "yes" is lying.

Or did we think that of Jason Ball and Darren Jolly in 2005 for Sydney?

Or did we think that of Jason Ball and Darren Jolly in 2005 for Sydney?

Darren Jolly..... Thats opening up and old wound of mine. I really believe the MFC stuffed up big time there, jeff white could have been traded for a good player but insted they let jolly go. I really rated him even back then. But good luck to him, his got something no melbourne player in the last 50 years has had.

Dunno, did you think Campbell, Taylor and Renouf would at the start of 2007.

Can't say I did - but then they weren't 25, 24 and 22 at the start of 2007 either. Do you really think we have a strong list of ruckmen?

( Ball already had a premiership behind him at the start of 2005 - and Jolley was well ahead of Jamar)

Darren Jolly..... Thats opening up and old wound of mine. I really believe the MFC stuffed up big time there, jeff white could have been traded for a good player but insted they let jolly go. I really rated him even back then. But good luck to him, his got something no melbourne player in the last 50 years has had.

Jolly was as fortunate Steven Armstrong to have a P/ship medal. In 2005 Jolly watched a tight match go Sydney's way from the bench.

At the end of 2004, why would we have traded the reigning AA ruckman for a player who could not show he could cut it as a No 1 ruckman and in fact had cracked the sads big time at not being given more time against White? What price would you have got for White and which club was prepared to pay it?

Jolly was traded because he wanted to leave in 2004 and had one year in his contract. We got what we could in the market for Jolly at the time (Pick 15). The option was to keep him and let him go through the PSD and we would have got nothing. Jolly left as raw and unproven and only in the last year has been a serviceable ruckman.

So how did MFC stuff up?

So how did MFC stuff up?

This is a good start..... "( Ball already had a premiership behind him at the start of 2005 - and Jolley was well ahead of Jamar)"

For a ruckman to crack the sads in my eyes was not managed as well as he should have been by all involved. We did do well to get pick 15 but still believe we would have been better off to keep him at the club for the long term. Jeff white was already on a down hill slide, he was from 04 onwards from where I was sitting.

Jeff white gave great service to the club but I felt very often from 04 onwards he did do the hard things well (1%'ers, Clogging Holes etc) rather he was looking for easy touches being a link man. Just my opinion, but that is why I felt the MFC made a mistake allowing jolly to trade. Had have white gone down with a bad injury from this time or moving forward we would be better placed last year with jolly as #1.

I'm not associated with the inner cirlces of the club so there could well be other issues internally that ment this was impossible but from the outside I belive the club did make a mistake leaving Jamar as #2 not Jolly.

Re trading white my logic was and still is we would have picked up something special for him at that stage, but by keeping him we now have nothing to show for it. I am probably very biased in my assessments as i enjoy watching the crash and bash rucks more so then the athletes like white.

Can't say I did - but then they weren't 25, 24 and 22 at the start of 2007 either. Do you really think we have a strong list of ruckmen?

( Ball already had a premiership behind him at the start of 2005 - and Jolley was well ahead of Jamar)

Age has little to do with it. And regardless of the answer to the question, how does a further raw rookie ruckman address your perception of the rucks.

At the start of 2005, Jason Ball was an unheralded ruckman and his premiership was earned as CHF for WCE.

FWIW, Jamar was preferred over Jolly for the 2004 EF after Jolly went into a sulk just prior to seasons end.

Then stand corrected.

He is contracted until 2010.

Happily... if you provide a source.

Darren Jolly..... Thats opening up and old wound of mine. I really believe the MFC stuffed up big time there, jeff white could have been traded for a good player but insted they let jolly go. I really rated him even back then. But good luck to him, his got something no melbourne player in the last 50 years has had.

FFS not this again - clubs trade for mature ruckmen when they think they are a chance to win the flag, therefore by definition they don't trade top 10 picks and they don't trade good players. There is no way we could've got a better deal for White than we did for Jolly. Who exactly were we going to trade White to?

Can't say I did - but then they weren't 25, 24 and 22 at the start of 2007 either.

Campbell was 25 and Taylor was 24, Spencer is the same age as Renouf was.

Happily... if you provide a source.

My information comes from a contact close the Club who has been correct on a number of matters. Your choice. No doubts on my side.

My information comes from a contact close the Club who has been correct on a number of matters. Your choice. No doubts on my side.

Well for what it's worth I think he was originally signed to a two year contract, therefore he has one to go.

I chased this issue up a few weeks ago and the hysterical Meesen baggers were unable to provide any evidence that he was contracted until the end of 2010.

Instead of appearing to state fact and correct others Rhino, you should do a little more than rely on a chat with a mate.

Well for what it's worth I think he was originally signed to a two year contract, therefore he has one to go.

I chased this issue up a few weeks ago and the hysterical Meesen baggers were unable to provide any evidence that he was contracted until the end of 2010.

Instead of appearing to state fact and correct others Rhino, you should do a little more than rely on a chat with a mate.

Contracted until the end of 2010. Sad but true.

Well for what it's worth I think he was originally signed to a two year contract, therefore he has one to go.

I chased this issue up a few weeks ago and the hysterical Meesen baggers were unable to provide any evidence that he was contracted until the end of 2010.

Instead of appearing to state fact and correct others Rhino, you should do a little more than rely on a chat with a mate.

Nor have you provided any factual evidence beyond "I think" so yours is a bad case of pot calling kettle black.

Are you prepared to bet $200 payable to the MFC as a donation if you are proven wrong? I am.

This is a good start..... "( Ball already had a premiership behind him at the start of 2005 - and Jolley was well ahead of Jamar)"

Sadly it isnt and its been debunked.

For a ruckman to crack the sads in my eyes was not managed as well as he should have been by all involved.

Sorry we did not put the fringe player before the needs of the team. What was MFC thinking???

We did do well to get pick 15 but still believe we would have been better off to keep him at the club for the long term.

Darren Jolly was not prepared to competer and stated that he wanted to leave. Should we have kept him a year and let him go for nothing in the PSD???

Jeff white was already on a down hill slide, he was from 04 onwards from where I was sitting.

FFS, he was AA ruckman in 2004!!! Were you sitting at another venue?

Jeff white gave great service to the club but I felt very often from 04 onwards he did do the hard things well (1%'ers, Clogging Holes etc) rather he was looking for easy touches being a link man. Just my opinion, but that is why I felt the MFC made a mistake allowing jolly to trade. Had have white gone down with a bad injury from this time or moving forward we would be better placed last year with jolly as #1.

Its a pity as AA ruckman in 2004 White did not do the 1%. clogging holes. Possibly because he was catalyst to getting MFC to top of the ladder by round 18!! And I am buggered if I can work out what achieve Jolly did in 2004 beyond being a trucculent beanpole that was awkward and immobile on the ground and who did little when given the chance.

I'm not associated with the inner cirlces of the club so there could well be other issues internally that ment this was impossible but from the outside I belive the club did make a mistake leaving Jamar as #2 not Jolly.

You dont have to be. Common sense will get you there. The No 2 spot on the list was there for Jolly's taking. He did not want and performed a sulk and was most disappointing in 2004.

Re trading white my logic was and still is we would have picked up something special for him at that stage, but by keeping him we now have nothing to show for it. I am probably very biased in my assessments as i enjoy watching the crash and bash rucks more so then the athletes like white.

You logic isn't because you still have not dealt with my earlier questions "Why would MFC trade a reigning AA ruckman when it had one sulking fringe ruckman in Jolly and one raw ruckman in Jamar?" And what Club and how much would they have traded?

Nor have you provided any factual evidence beyond "I think" so yours is a bad case of pot calling kettle black.

Are you prepared to bet $200 payable to the MFC as a donation if you are proven wrong? I am.

Thats 4 heartland donatations Good Call - Rhino, what are you like at poker???

Back on topic

ts a pity as AA ruckman in 2004 White did not do the 1%. clogging holes. Possibly because he was catalyst to getting MFC to top of the ladder by round 18!! And I am buggered if I can work out what achieve Jolly did in 2004 beyond being a trucculent beanpole that was awkward and immobile on the ground and who did little when given the chance.

I really don't remember jeff white being the player that led us to the top of the ladder. It was a hard running midfield under ratten from the side of the ground I was on. I'll stand by my statement that at the end of 04 we would have maximised a return for white. Like I said earlier I might be biased a little but for me a good ruckman needs to be doing the hard things, filling holes and doing 1%'ers just like PJ made a name for himself last year. Re Jolly's 04 again his 1st half was good by my memmory and thought at the time that Jamar was tested in the second half to see if he was up to it, which I still don't think he was but was lucky jolly went. From my memory there were at least 6 clubs that were chaising a good #1 ruck and melbourne was seen to have 1xAA, 1xA and 1xB. This is hind site but surly a good midfield trade for white and keeping jolly would have us in a better position now?

Does anyone have who we picked up for jolly in the draft, this has got me interested! If they have turned out to be a real good player great