You're in a positive frame of mind today, RR

Just cant knock back a bargain on the trade table and got 3 put up. Its a good day!

Fair call on Carroll but let's face it, he's not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer. Consistency is the only way to change the culture. One trade offer or one suspension won't change anything, but hold a consistent line and eventually it might sink in, even to the likes of Carroll.

I don't like pointing the finger at individual players, espacially in regards to things I have no idea about. But it's been suggested on here that Sylvia doesn't work as hard as he should and that Dunn has shirked a few contests. I'm not saying that's true, I don't go to training and didn't see the Dunn incident(s). But let's say Bailey feels the same way, he should shop them around. Sylvia may have some currency and Dunn is big and quick, don't forget RR Hawthorn made a pretty good offer for Ferg. Sometimes coaches see things we don't.

My main point was just because they're young and we think they could be good, doesn't mean they should be exempt from the right trade.

You trade to improve your list....period. Typically teams trade to top up their list for a tilt at the flag when their window is there. How many teams see themselves in that boat? May be 3 to 4.

I am just wondering how many players on our list with their track record, fitness history and potential are going to draw a sufficiently worthly trade outcome. I suspect not many and not the values that have been touted here.

I expect this years trade to be tough because most sides will lose draft picks in future years with the onset of the Gold Coast and W Sydney. They will be tight with the cards this year.

I am just wondering how many players on our list with their track record, fitness history and potential are going to draw a sufficiently worthly trade outcome. I suspect not many and not the values that have been touted here.

Yep.... and Yep !!

It amuses me ( and I suspect a few others ) that in amongst all this wonderful trading that can apparently happen at a drop of a hat that al lthose "other" teams are apparently totally silly. It seems in all teh hypothetical scenarios of this player going for that or a pic..or whatever that the other teams are just going to cough up as though they unlike us, are happy to dilute thir ranks.

This is not school yard stuff. Generally al teams are fairly switched on and are unlikley to give up too much. Having said that there have been the odd clanger in recent times who have dudded their new clubs ( And I think we're right in the midst of that too ) .

Unless you can fulfill a need of a prospective trading partner with something they dont have or cant get readily then we se no trade..like the other year.

Draft picks are going to worth Safron this year. This only further dilutes the oft suspect value going in of some players. You then either accept that going forward you may have to take a deal less admired in order to position yourslef.

In answering the original queryt I throw back the question and wonder what deficiencies other clubs have that need any of our discards ?? By discard i simply mean anyone were prepared to offer.

If the list is a bit full of some so-so performers as some suggest then the recourse left to us to make room make simply be more retirements and blatant delisting...with no trade for them , simply freeing up space. This is called..cutting your losses. It is true however that other clubs may be takig exactly the same tac and its posible a deal may be struck out of desperate covenience.

If we get anything I feel it might be in the PSD...no trade involved...unless Say Freo decided to get 'something ' instead of nothing for say Warnock as an example.

Might offer them Carroll , Meesen with the clincher being the steak knives !!

Were the spooners -elect.. who really thinks were in much of a position to trade in any advantageous fashion ? Dont add me to that list

Rhino, what has happened in previous years really has no relevance to players value this year or beyond. Each year is very different and it all depends on finding the right buyer at the right time. For example collingwood gave up pick 14 to get Wood from Brisbane...the same pick that was used to secure TJ...clearly TJ is a lot better than Wood, its just supply and demand issue. Heck We managed to sneak pick 17 for Jolly! clearly he is more than 3 picks behind TJ in value.

My point is, if we can find a team who needs an immediate boost, or is in need of one more midfielder, say for example, Stkilda or the Dogs (west is getting on), even hawks or Adelaide, if they think Bruce can potentially get them over the hump i could easily see them giving up a late first round pick for him. And think about it, Bruce playing on a good team like that, where he is not one of the top players, he would suddenly play a lot better than he is now. He is a bit of a front runner...

Everyone agrees Bruce should be traded. Sylvia and possibly Bell may be, form pending.

Thank god that someone came out and said it. I would trade Bell for pick 40 to be totally honest. He will never make it

Rhino, what has happened in previous years really has no relevance to players value this year or beyond. Each year is very different and it all depends on finding the right buyer at the right time. For example collingwood gave up pick 14 to get Wood from Brisbane...the same pick that was used to secure TJ...clearly TJ is a lot better than Wood, its just supply and demand issue. Heck We managed to sneak pick 17 for Jolly! clearly he is more than 3 picks behind TJ in value.

My point is, if we can find a team who needs an immediate boost, or is in need of one more midfielder, say for example, Stkilda or the Dogs (west is getting on), even hawks or Adelaide, if they think Bruce can potentially get them over the hump i could easily see them giving up a late first round pick for him. And think about it, Bruce playing on a good team like that, where he is not one of the top players, he would suddenly play a lot better than he is now. He is a bit of a front runner...

Sorry you are wrong Don. There is relevance. Trades over recent years have shown there is greater currency for young ruckman with potential over that of talented but NQR midfielders.

Over recent years we have seen the following trade in ruckman:

2003: Street to WB for pick 20

2004: Ottens to Geeling for pick 12 and 16

2004: Jolly to Swans for pick 15

2006: Hacked culture sores like Gardiner and Everitt went for 3rd round picks.

Collingwood give up pick 14 for Wood is perfectly in line with history.

Comparing TJ and Wood are like apple and bananas.

Out of our midfield only Bruce or McLean would attract attention. We wont trade McLean and Bruce's value is marked because of age and his limited on field impact due to his hacked disposal by foot. The rest of the midfield are too young,too slow or too unaccomplished to extract any real value.

rubbish Rhino, past trades mean very little, and comparing ruckman and midfielders is not like comparing apples and oranges...they are both footballers desired by other clubs. Again, like i said, it comes back to an issue of supply and demand...the reason wood and jolly received high picks is because there was few ruckman going around and syd and coll didnt need more young kids as they believed they were on the cusp of challenging for a premiership. So like i said, all we need is to find a club in need of a midfielder such as Bruce and if there are little other options available we could get a very nice pick out of it.

I belive that we would get a late first round pick (10-16) for Green.

A good solid midfielder who can go forward. is in his prime now. and has a number of good years ahead.

I reakon Collingwood, Bulldogs, Carlton and Maybe Sydney would all be keen.

We have already heard rumours about Ratten asking him not to re-sign till the end of the year.

and i reakon the Bulldogs would have a very long hard think if we asked for their first rounder.

No one will touch Bell. average half back flanker. I thought he had a great season last year and might be able to regain that form again.

So like i said, all we need is to find a club in need of a midfielder such as Bruce and if there are little other options available we could get a very nice pick out of it.

Your dreaming. We will not get a 'very nice pick' out of it. The most we would ever get for Bruce is a third rounder. He is going on 29 and with the draft concessions coming up up it is fanciful thinking to suggest we would get a 1st or 2nd round pick for him.

I belive that we would get a late first round pick (10-16) for Green.

I agree. I would like to keep him but they way he has played this year I would argue that his value has soared and he would be a very important player to a top four team as a dangerous forward, a winger or playing loose in defense as he reads the play so well.

rubbish Rhino, past trades mean very little, and comparing ruckman and midfielders is not like comparing apples and oranges...they are both footballers desired by other clubs. Again, like i said, it comes back to an issue of supply and demand...the reason wood and jolly received high picks is because there was few ruckman going around and syd and coll didnt need more young kids as they believed they were on the cusp of challenging for a premiership. So like i said, all we need is to find a club in need of a midfielder such as Bruce and if there are little other options available we could get a very nice pick out of it.

I think we are arguing the same point. Past trades are indicative of the demand and supply conditions that existed at the time. Many of those factors are necessarily seasonal. The shortage of capable AFL ruckman has been around for years and as a consequence any potentially half decent ruckman goes at a premiership. But thanks for the news that Coll and Syd didnt need anymore young kids. Really Wood was 20 when he was drafted by Collingwood. Getting old isnt he?

If we can get a good pick for Bruce (pick 28 or less) then we should take it.

I belive that we would get a late first round pick (10-16) for Green.

A good solid midfielder who can go forward. is in his prime now. and has a number of good years ahead.

I reakon Collingwood, Bulldogs, Carlton and Maybe Sydney would all be keen.

We have already heard rumours about Ratten asking him not to re-sign till the end of the year.

and i reakon the Bulldogs would have a very long hard think if we asked for their first rounder.

No one will touch Bell. average half back flanker. I thought he had a great season last year and might be able to regain that form again.

If TJ gets pick 14 as a highly talented game breaking potential midfielder but with an attitude problem, I cant see Green who is an honest hard working, mid paced but not dominating midfielder in a bottom placed club drawing a 1st round pick. The Bulldogs least of all given their flush with midfielders and probably want a marking forward. Green can pinch hit there on a good day but he has shown that he cant sustain the position forward.

If TJ gets pick 14 as a highly talented game breaking potential midfielder but with an attitude problem, I cant see Green who is an honest hard working, mid paced but not dominating midfielder in a bottom placed club drawing a 1st round pick. The Bulldogs least of all given their flush with midfielders and probably want a marking forward. Green can pinch hit there on a good day but he has shown that he cant sustain the position forward.

I'd say no lower than pick 15 and no higher than 25 for Green. If a club is really interested then we can play hardball.

Personally I thought pick 14 for TJ was a steal such is the way in which early draft picks are revered these days.

Thank god that someone came out and said it. I would trade Bell for pick 40 to be totally honest. He will never make it

I said I would consider a trade 'form pending'. Ideally I'd like to see him go back to Sandy, show some form and come back into the seniors and pick up where he left off last year. If you had your way he would have done his knee last week and he wouldn't be any good to anybody.

I know this would kind of defeat the purpose, but if we do end up with picks 1, 17 and 18, then maybe to get another first round pick we could do, for example, Green + 18 for 12. Although I think by pick 18 there will still be plenty of talent left, if someone would take 'player + 17/18' for a better pick maybe that's how we could it.

Miller..just goes at CHF with the bottom club, questionable performance history and has alot to prove.....Pick 18 you say. We should take that in a blink.

If we're smart then we might be able to get a very good pick for Miller, it's all about timing. Our best bet is with the new Gold Coast team, they'll be desperate for experienced key forwards so there could be a great opportunity of securing a 1st rounder for him. Petterd is another who will attract some interest from them.

With Green if we seriously wanted to trade him then we should approach a club like Richmond or Carlton. Been down for many years and had a heap of low picks recently but now pretty desperate for results to appease the fans, a player of Green's experience and ability would suit both teams, especially Carlton who have a very good midfield group. They'll finish somewhere between 6th and 10th.

If we're smart then we might be able to get a very good pick for Miller, it's all about timing. Our best bet is with the new Gold Coast team, they'll be desperate for experienced key forwards so there could be a great opportunity of securing a 1st rounder for him. Petterd is another who will attract some interest from them.

Because they are Qlders or because they are footballers. Gold Coast do not come into the AFL until 2010....Is that right? Therefore they will only have draft picks for years commencing 2009

If we got a good pick for Miller I am for it. However thats 12 months away. We know what he is capable of and we can gauge what he is worth..thereabouts.

Petterd is a different matter. He is young, highly regarded player who could be a really good prospect in the future. There is no way we would get any value for his potential upside on the basis of where he is now injured and in his 2nd year. I would wait a year but would be reluctant to deal with him.