Anyone for cricket?

[Sir Why You Little 37,128]

This is our only chance of Beating the English this summer....

B)

[titan_uranus 25,043]

Fair enough, those matches must have been played at the same time, i didn't watch the Ch 9 debacle, was it Tim Paine who was injured that night?

Both injuries were crucial Blows.

Spin Bowlers often go for runs early in there career, but when you bag an 8 for, it's still going to be a low score overall.

Krejza was very poorly treated IMO.

Krejza's figures vs India at Nagpur were 8/215 (at 4.9 an over) and then 4/143 (at 4.61 an over). India made 441 and 295. We lost by 172 runs.

In Perth against RSA he took 1/102 (at 4.08 an over) and 0/102 (at 4.25 an over).

Those figures are worse than I remember, but I still feel that if we'd persisted with a spinner who can spin the ball (i.e. not Hauritz) we wouldn't be in this predicament.

[H_T 3,049]

if you don't think Ponting is a major Selector at Present HT, that is just Niave my friend.

Ponting has had a big say for a long time, sadly too long. And it is now back firing on him.

You avoid naming your preferred Test Team with reasoning, time and again. Here, I'll make it easy for you. Just fill in the blanks for the 3rd Test in Perth. Please include changes and good reasoning to substantiate your changes.

Aussie XI v england @ Perth

1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

10.

11.

12th Man.

COMMENT:

[Sir Why You Little 37,128]

Krejza's figures vs India at Nagpur were 8/215 (at 4.9 an over) and then 4/143 (at 4.61 an over). India made 441 and 295. We lost by 172 runs.

In Perth against RSA he took 1/102 (at 4.08 an over) and 0/102 (at 4.25 an over).

Those figures are worse than I remember, but I still feel that if we'd persisted with a spinner who can spin the ball (i.e. not Hauritz) we wouldn't be in this predicament.

sure the figures are not great, but as you say 8 for and then 4 for, i believe he should have been persisted with. Many a spin bowler has been carted to the boundry in Perth, It is all hindsight, but i think big mistakes have been made over a long period of time, combined with bad luck, to bring us to right now. Rock Bottom was hit today.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

He's still bowling over 140 in the Ryobi Cup. His flat trajectory never hurt him before.

The point wasn't 'Let's bring Lee back', it was more 'I wish we has someone like Lee to bring in'.

Brett Lee's falt trajectory was picked apart in England in 2005 and against India in Australia a couple of years later.

On good batting strips he was too often impotent. But I know what your saying though. We dont have an Australian fast bowler that leads the attack.

Krejza's figures vs India at Nagpur were 8/215 (at 4.9 an over) and then 4/143 (at 4.61 an over). India made 441 and 295. We lost by 172 runs.

In Perth against RSA he took 1/102 (at 4.08 an over) and 0/102 (at 4.25 an over).

Those figures are worse than I remember, but I still feel that if we'd persisted with a spinner who can spin the ball (i.e. not Hauritz) we wouldn't be in this predicament.

Good research TU. Should be lesson foe some who struggle for a fact

Krejza was terrible in Perth (= Doherty in Adelaide) against South Africa and with exception of one jaffa that got Amla he didnt turn the ball and could turn the tap off on the runs. Notwithstanding his wicket haul in India which reflected a dead rubber jolly where the Indian batsman werent that respectful, Krejza wicket average is about 44 and he goes for 4 to 5 an over. Its not sustainable. I note Hauritz came in at Melb and took six wickets for the game at about 2.5 an over.

Krejza had has 2 years to get it right at Shield level but hasn't performed.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

....It is all hindsight, but i think big mistakes have been made over a long period of time, .....

Which were big mistakes and what would you have done?

The best comment you have made is that "Its all hindsight". Pity you cant put context and facts to your hindsight judgements

[45HG 1,559]

Spin Bowlers often go for runs early in there career, but when you bag an 8 for, it's still going to be a low score overall.

Krejza was very poorly treated IMO.

Mmm...

I'm sure you've got some research, some stats, to back that up...

Playing against youngsters before that series, Krejza took 0/199 in 31 overs.

He took 12/358 in his debut...India made 441 after inexplicable brainfades against the debutante. Jason had figures of 3-199 before 5 batsmen (literally) gifted their wickets to him. It was one of the more bizarre half hours of cricket you'd see.

It was the most runs ever conceded on debut. Not quite a low score overall.

When he finally got a gig in Aus (after injury) he took 1/204 against South Africa for the match. They chased a world record 414 in the fourth innings to win.

Hauritz came in and did a much better job, all round, than Krejza would be capable of.

[Sir Why You Little 37,128]

You avoid naming your preferred Test Team with reasoning, time and again.

why? I have never stated i wish to pick the side-i do not have access to all the info, and please do not send it to me if you have it all there, as i am at work now ok. I am allowed my opinion of the Pathetic state of Australian Cricket-if you disagree fine. So be it. This is a discussion Board.

You guys look at stats. I look at the body language of the Australian Xl-The team is old tired & burnt out like a Beautiful car that has never been serviced properly, that is now in need of the Complete Major Engine rebiuld, including the chassis.

Seems to me when Jon Buchanan (spelling??) stopped being coach, The Australian camp (selectors & Team) lost the main man, and they are still recovering.

Edited December 7, 2010 by why you little

[45HG 1,559]

Seems to me when Jon Buchanan (spelling??) stopped being coach, The Australian camp (selectors & Team) lost the main man, and they are still recovering.

More ludicrous outbursts.

I'm sure no great Australian cricketers retired at a similar time as Buchanan retiring from his coaching role...

[Sir Why You Little 37,128]

Mmm...

I'm sure you've got some research, some stats, to back that up...

Playing against youngsters before that series, Krejza took 0/199 in 31 overs.

He took 12/358 in his debut...India made 441 after inexplicable brainfades against the debutante. Jason had figures of 3-199 before 5 batsmen (literally) gifted their wickets to him. It was one of the more bizarre half hours of cricket you'd see.

It was the most runs ever conceded on debut. Not quite a low score overall.

When he finally got a gig in Aus (after injury) he took 1/204 against South Africa for the match. They chased a world record 414 in the fourth innings to win.

Hauritz came in and did a much better job, all round, than Krejza would be capable of.

Not disputing he didn't get hit for a score..but he took 12 wickets, that is more than luck. He deserved longer time to develop, i mean we haven't got any further up till today have we sadly.

This is my whole point. Selection has been conservative and preferred to tread water rather than Risk Take.

After losing such a plethora of champions in a 2 year span, i would prefer to take the Risk Taking stance.

I don't think Hauritz will ever take 12 wickets for playing for Australia-i wish he had, but i don't think he cuts it at top level. Maybe Krejza was incredibly lucky in that innings, But there was something there the Indians couldn't read, and they play spin better than any other nation.

Edited December 7, 2010 by why you little

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I am allowed my opinion of the Pathetic state of Australian Cricket-if you disagree fine. So be it. This is a discussion Board.

And like I have said before if you dont like it questioned then get a blog and turn off the response meter. You are right it is a discussion board. And you dont participate in discussion because you just dont put up any subatance.

I look at the body language of the Australian Xl-The team is old tired & burnt out like a Beautiful car that has never been serviced properly, that is now in need of the Complete Major Engine rebiuld, including the chassis.

Ok Ultra tune what would you have done? BTW, you should check you incisive reading of body language with some facts and figures.

Seems to me when Jon Buchanan (spelling??) stopped being coach, The Australian camp (selectors & Team) lost the main man, and they are still recovering.

Oh right. So it has nothing to with the quality of the team and the selectors then?

The fact is the problems with Australian cricket are a multitude of issues and not the golden goose egg solutions you try to provide.

[H_T 3,049]

Mmm...

I'm sure you've got some research, some stats, to back that up...

Playing against youngsters before that series, Krejza took 0/199 in 31 overs.

He took 12/358 in his debut...India made 441 after inexplicable brainfades against the debutante. Jason had figures of 3-199 before 5 batsmen (literally) gifted their wickets to him. It was one of the more bizarre half hours of cricket you'd see.

It was the most runs ever conceded on debut. Not quite a low score overall.

When he finally got a gig in Aus (after injury) he took 1/204 against South Africa for the match. They chased a world record 414 in the fourth innings to win.

Hauritz came in and did a much better job, all round, than Krejza would be capable of.

Now these are the facts. Shed just the right amount of light on the subject as to why Krejza was found incapable.

[Sir Why You Little 37,128]

More ludicrous outbursts.

I'm sure no great Australian cricketers retired at a similar time as Buchanan retiring from his coaching role...

You underestimate the role Buchanan played within the side, i am not disputing the Champions all left, I do think the Domestic Competition has not been used widely enough.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Not disputing he didn't get hit for a score..but he took 12 wickets, that is more than luck. He deserved longer time to develop, i mean we haven't got any further up till today have we sadly.

He has been given stacks of time to develop since his Test experience at Shield. But at nearly 5 runs an over you dont do that at Test level. And the lack of spinners to replace Warne does not embolden or justify his selection.

This is my whole point. Selection has been conservative and preferred to tread water rather than Risk Take.

After losing such a plethora of champions in a 2 year span, i would prefer to take the Risk Taking stance.

That's crap. Krejza was selected to tour India with little first class experince and in his one game in India (a start of tour jolly) he got hammered. He was selected in the last Test of the series. He had a day(s) out but with significant question marks.

Xavier Doherty was a risk selection. So please put up some substance to your arguments.

I don't think Hauritz will ever take 12 wickets for playing for Australia-i wish he had, but i don't think he cuts it at top level. Maybe Krejza was incredibly lucky in that innings, But there was something there the Indians couldn't read, and they play spin better than any other nation.

Thats not a valid measuring criteria for selection. The truth is neither cut it at Test level to sustain a career. One player cant even get a spot at Shield level. What's your solution?

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

You underestimate the role Buchanan played within the side, i am not disputing the Champions all left, I do think the Domestic Competition has not been used widely enough.

How is Buchanan's role different to Neilsen's current role? You dont know.

How could the domestic competition be used more widely? More teams?

[H_T 3,049]

I do think the Domestic Competition has not been used widely enough.

How so confucious ?

[45HG 1,559]

You underestimate the role Buchanan played within the side, i am not disputing the Champions all left, I do think the Domestic Competition has not been used widely enough.

Not as much as you underestimate the loss of:

Hayden

Langer

Martyn

Gilchrist

Warne

Mcgrath

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Not as much as you underestimate the loss of:

Hayden

Langer

Martyn

Gilchrist

Warne

Mcgrath

I would add Gillespie, Lee, McGill and he had Ponting at his peerless peak during his reign.

[titan_uranus 25,043]

Just to be fair, I was the one who brought up Krejza. I wasn't saying we should bring him in, I was saying I reckon it was the moment we dropped him that our spin problem truly developed.

The best spinners in the world, Swann, Harbhajan, Randiv, Herath, Benn, Vettori etc., all have one thing in common, and that is they spin the ball. It takes time for any spinner to develop an economy rate if they're spinning it, as spin necessitates a loss of control. But the fact of the matter is that spinners who don't turn it don't succeed and don't bowl you to a win. Hauritz's successes have come against sub-standard teams and he won't win us the Ashes.

[H_T 3,049]

Just to be fair, I was the one who brought up Krejza. I wasn't saying we should bring him in, I was saying I reckon it was the moment we dropped him that our spin problem truly developed.

The best spinners in the world, Swann, Harbhajan, Randiv, Herath, Benn, Vettori etc., all have one thing in common, and that is they spin the ball. It takes time for any spinner to develop an economy rate if they're spinning it, as spin necessitates a loss of control. But the fact of the matter is that spinners who don't turn it don't succeed and don't bowl you to a win. Hauritz's successes have come against sub-standard teams and he won't win us the Ashes.

May I add that I think our spin problem truly developed when S.K.Warne retired (and McGill to some extent). Not when Krejza was dropped.

[wisedog 352]

It's strange that our spin stocks are so low... You would think that the generation coming through would be full of Warne Wannabes.

Hughes in for Katich

Smith in for North

Big question marks over Bollinger and Doherty.

[titan_uranus 25,043]

May I add that I think our spin problem truly developed when S.K.Warne retired (and McGill to some extent). Not when Krejza was dropped.

Thanks Einstein.

Vettori is not a big turner of the ball and works on flight. Harb Singh is also a flight bowler that relies more on bounce than turn. Both are big wicket takers and game breakers

In Test Cricket as a spinner if you leak runs it does not matter what you do with the ball. And it does not go hand in hand that just because you "spin" the ball that you have difficulty with economy or a loss of control. In Perth two years ago, Krejza turned one ball in 50 overs. He has had ample time to demonstrate his prowess at Shield level and has not.

Our spin problems started when Warne retired and McGill did not retain his mojo after injuring his finger. We were blessed having 2 quality leggies at the one time. For many years we did not have a capable spinner pre Warne since Mallett retired.

For the record, Krejza came in to the 4th Test of the India series after we had failed to make an impression with Craig White as spinner. In the first three test Australia had never taken more than 14 wicketts in a Test. And you thought our spinning problems only started when we dropped him for the 1st Test vs NZ on a wet green track in Brisbane where Vettori hardly bowled. Interesting?

Clearly since Warne and MacGill we've had no one. That wasn't my point.

It doesn't matter who we play, no one's capable at the moment. We need to hope someone like Michael Beer or Cameron Boyce, maybe even Steve Smith, develops into a decent spinner. Until then we're going to struggle to bowl teams out.

[titan_uranus 25,043]

Smith in for North

Does that really solve anything? Smith's batting is not top-7 material at the moment. Playing him just because he bowls is not the answer.

David Hussey is a much better batsman who has the record to back it up. He's in form for Victoria, he can bat from 3-6, and to top it off he bowls off spin just as well as North does.

[H_T 3,049]

Thanks Einstein.

?

You're welcome.

[wisedog 352]

Does that really solve anything? Smith's batting is not top-7 material at the moment. Playing him just because he bowls is not the answer.

David Hussey is a much better batsman who has the record to back it up. He's in form for Victoria, he can bat from 3-6, and to top it off he bowls off spin just as well as North does.

Well whatever the change, I do think Smith should come into calculations. Smith in for Doherty probably makes more sense – The argument that Doherty could at least play a containing role seems to have been dashed after the Adelaide test, so I don’t think we’d be losing anything, plus Smith can bat.

I’m not entirely convinced by David Hussey. He’s in good form but he seems to have difficulty performing at the national level. He’s also 33 years old.