Anyone for cricket?

[montasaurus 0]

You forget Shaun Tate.

Nannes is 31 and a wild card. The difference between his best and worst is wide and he is too much a risk for where Australia is at the moment. Hilfenhaus moves the ball to slips to the right hander and was in the Melbourne 13. Bollinger is on his home ground. I would favour Hilfenhaus.

As usual Rhino, impossible to argue your logic and I do agree Hilfenhaus would have to be 1st pick on paper ATM. I was never a huge wrap for tate even at state level yes he was quick, but i would argue not dangerous. Nannes has an ability to make balls rise off a fuller length then most, hence why he is so dangerous. However I don't think being 31 is too old being that we have johnson and siddle ahead of everbody else and both are young.

Therefore who knows a suprise could well be sprung but I think you are right The difference between his best and worst is wide and is a concern. However - this could even be an advantage if he is in form, which he seems to be he could well spark something special! The argument against my logic is that both siddle and johnson can be a little wayward at times and it is maybe too much of a risk to add a 3rd wild card to the attack. But it would ceratainly make our 1st bowling session an interesting one to watch!

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

As usual Rhino, impossible to argue your logic and I do agree Hilfenhaus would have to be 1st pick on paper ATM. I was never a huge wrap for tate even at state level yes he was quick, but i would argue not dangerous. Nannes has an ability to make balls rise off a fuller length then most, hence why he is so dangerous. However I don't think being 31 is too old being that we have johnson and siddle ahead of everbody else and both are young.

Trajectory for a quick bowler is critical along with pace and accuracy. I think the selectors are hoping to go to the Ashes with fit and in form Lee (33) and Clark (34). At the very least Clark...for his metronomic accuracy. For quick bowler to debut at 31 then he claims must be irresistible. I dont think Nannes has that strong a case. He is in the mix but it would be bizarre if Hilfenhaus was overlooked given he was in the Melbourne 13.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

STOP PRESS:

ABC Radio announced that Shane Watson has a stress fracture in his back and will be out for up to six weeks and will only resume batting and wont bowl for up to six months.

Geez, he would have to do wonderful things in 2009/2010 to even get a consideration. Questions over both his batting and bowling at the top level with a serious dark cloud over his body.

[montasaurus 0]

STOP PRESS:

ABC Radio announced that Shane Watson has a stress fracture in his back and will be out for up to six weeks and will only resume batting and wont bowl for up to six months.

Geez, he would have to do wonderful things in 2009/2010 to even get a consideration. Questions over both his batting and bowling at the top level with a serious dark cloud over his body.

Wow, the search for the next young allrounder has just started I think!

David Hussey is great but too old, so who else is in line?

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Cameron White or Marcus North????

[montasaurus 0]

Cameron White or Marcus North????

I can't understand why white is currently behind our current spinner let alone in as an allrounder. Maybe he needs to do KFC adds and go fishing a bit more often! He could well be a future captain as well due to his leadership at state level!

[grazman 6,743]

Since losing to the Poms in 2005, the selectors have tried to manufacture an allrounder, and have picked Symonds and Watson when form hasn't warranted selection. I get the impression that Ponting has had a big say in their selection.

I agree Mo. Captains usually have a say to a certain extent as to who plays in the side and who doesn't. Symonds at least strikes me as a Ponting selection. After being banished he came back in on reputation and not form, he's injured and has never shown the application to be regarded as a genuine test batsman. I really can't understand the rationale behind selecting an allrounder for the sake of having an allrounder when our dominance has been fixed around seven batsmen and four bowlers. I wonder how bad Michael Clark's back is - surely he's good for 6-8 overs for an innings?

Listening to Shane Warne in the last test and watching Ricky Ponting's captaincy for a while, I think the two are chalk and cheese. Warney for all his faults has a great tactical mind, and would have made a superb captain. Ricky is just devoid of any creativity or spark. He backs his troops, but is completely dyslexic when it comes to the writing on the wall. Perhaps that's a little unfair, because this current South African team is going to be deservedly the number one team for a while. They're very good - not great, but a lot better than us.

The real challenge isn't trying to gain respectability in the next test or trying to be competitive in South Africa, it's trying to build a side that can defend the Ashes, and in that regard the next four tests are vital, the results are meaningless.

If I were a betting man, I think there'd be pretty good odds for the selectors continuing their conservative line, they'll replace the injured Lee with Hilfenhaus. Watson being injured complicates the matter, because he would have replaced Symonds. In Sydney I'd say they'll opt for Cameron White which would be the wrong decision in my book. Hayden will stay if he's retiring otherwise he's gone and Phil Hughes comes in.

For me though the problem has been two fold, firstly it's the batsman that aren't making enough runs and this is compounded by sides like South Africa that aren't intimidated about chasing down reasonable second innings totals, and we can't buy a wicket when we need one. Number four is problematic, Hussey is as out of form as Hayden IMO. I'd swap him and Clark and if he doesn't make runs soon, then you need to consider either Brad Hodge or David Hussey. I'd move Haddin to six, his forms pretty good and Johnson and Hauritz are both pretty much all-rounders when it comes to the blade anyway. (In fact I'm happy to go on record as saying I think Johnson is probably a better batsman than he is a bowler). There's a lot not to like about that in terms of 'balance' but neither Symonds or Watson ever gave us enough with the bat to justify their selection ahead of a specialist batsman IMO. White gives you nothing in the bowling stakes and while I'd normally favour playing six specialist batsmen, we have real problems trying to find an attack capable of taking 20 wickets in a test (both in India and against South Africa) Siddle remains (though I'm not sold and in time I think he'll make way for Clark), Hilfenhaus comes in, it's a no-brainer, he swings the ball and takes wickets.

The last position in problematic. I'm not interested in short term solutions and it doesn't worry me if we lose the series 3-0 or 2-1. Playing Kreja would seem logical on a turning pitch, but the real question for me is whether he's going to be the man that helps us retain the Ashes. Both logic and my gut-feel tell me no. He's the best long term spin prospect for mine, but he needs time. ATM he bleeds runs and isn't a real threat. Which is why I'd go with Doug Bollinger. Like Hilfy he moves the ball in the air, and even though his last season of County cricket was poor, he could be the difference. All we can do is suck it and see, like I said if we lose the next four test matches, but find a combination that can defend the Ashes then that's all that matters.

[montasaurus 0]

The real challenge isn't trying to gain respectability in the next test or trying to be competitive in South Africa, it's trying to build a side that can defend the Ashes, and in that regard the next four tests are vital, the results are meaningless.

You have hit the nail on the head Grazman. Rebuilding time is here. I have actually come up with an idea that that for some reason does not appear very often in cricket circles. Its nothing new but.... Rotation!

Once upon a time aspiring test cricketers were blooded in the one day form, but for the last 5-10yrs the 1 day side has become a specialists ground likewise 20-20 and I for one really believe there is a big difference b/w a test batsman and a gun 1day/20-20 bat unless they are something special - eg Gilly.

Therefore what I have noticed over the last 3 years is that as soon as somebody is out of form, injured or personal issues there is no ready replacement. Why? no game time. India was the perfect example. It took an injury for siddle to get a chance and now its an injury for another "untried" bowler to get a chance in sydney. Imagine if for the last 18 months the Aust side had a simple rotation basis that allowed players of the like of lee, Hayden, symonds etc always to have a forced rest in the series. There is a chance we may not have won as many tests but we would have been in a much stronger position now with players ready to step in. Hodge has been in the top few top order batsman for years but has little experience. What happens if clark and/or pointing go down with a long term injury? I'm sure someone will take an opportunity, but they should not have to- They should already be blooded. Games against the minnows like NZ, Srilanka, Bangladesh, and even england etc that we seem to play close to 1/yr is the perfect opportunity. Smashing these sides by 400 runs and sometime days does nothing for us. keep the AA players fit and rested while developing the next A-AA players. Trying players against the top side in the world after you have already lost 2 nil is a bit late in my book. Look at most other professional team sports and this is a common practice "resting/rotating players", especially

David Hussey - No Opportunity

Cameron White - Almost No Opportunity

Brad Hodge - Little opportunity

Mcdonald - No opportunity

Siddle - opportunity only through injury

Outcome - for the recent time the Vics have been the bench mark, why? no rotation in the Aust side. there also seem to be less "tour games" when the sides are O/S giving the squad even less experience in conditions they are not used to. I really believe out of this group there should have been close to 15 tests played in the last 12 months (or any similar group).

Glad to see the squad named today. Hopefully haydens fairwell test. I can't believe he has not come out and retired, some people just don't know when it is time.

[titan_uranus 23,225]

Andrew Hilditch is pathetic. I place a large portion of the blame on him. Look at some of his comments: our rebuilding phase is going well despite the results (how can that be, we've only brought in one young player), Hayden deserves his spot in the team (he most certainly does not).

Hayden should have been dropped. His form is atrocious, he is placing unfair amounts of pressure on Ponting, Hussey and Clarke by getting out before the first bowling change, and he is keeping fresh players like Hughes or Rogers out of the team. And if the excuse for playing him is that he's a good first slip, then that's weak. If Hussey has to field first slip, so be it. I'd prefer a no. 1 who makes it past the new ball.

Symonds should never have played in Melbourne. I don't know what the situation was with Watson prior to the test (i.e. could he have played or not), but clearly Symonds is hampered with that ankle injury. If he can't field properly (which he can't) then he loses his aura. Moreover, his off spin is pathetic. His mediums are serviceable, but he couldn't bowl them. Congratulations to MacDonald for getting an opportunity. Hard luck to Watson for missing out again.

For the next test, I'd bat MacDonald at 7. Give Haddin more responsibility at 6. If he didn't continually throw his wicket away his average would be so much higher. At 6 maybe he'll recognise that he needs to stick around longer and forge a partnership or two. And I read yesterday that after 11 tests, he's hit 11 sixes, whereas after 11 tests Gilchrist had hit only 2.

[Rogue 585]

I really can't understand the rationale behind selecting an allrounder for the sake of having an allrounder when our dominance has been fixed around seven batsmen and four bowlers.

I think that having four great bowlers has allowed us the luxury. However, with five bowlers there's always someone who's not getting utilised enough to hold his place. I think it's important to have a fifth option that can at least tie up an end with some level of threat.

I wonder how bad Michael Clark's back is - surely he's good for 6-8 overs for an innings?

Talking of batsmen that can bowl a bit, Katich is more than handy IMO. I wonder if he was also carrying a shoulder injury in India - it would explain why he wasn't used.

Btw, I agree with you re: planning for the Ashes, and IMO there are almost half the spots up for grabs.

Haddin's secured his spot atm, while Johnson and Clark should be two of our quicks.

Ponting, Hussey (despite a blip atm), Clarke and Katich should be afforded an opportunity, although it'll be interesting if Kat can keep his form over there.

That leaves another quick, a spinner, an opener, and a middle-order bat / all-rounder spot up for grabs.

For the quick, I like Hilfenhaus and think he'd perform well in England. It'd be nice to have a bona fide swing bowler. Lee will attempt to play on, while Bollinger and Siddle are also thereabouts.

With regards a spinner, McGain deserves an opportunity if he can regain fitness and form. I heard a radio interview with him and he's aiming to play for Victoria in Jan, and despite his age I'd look to give him a berth.

It's almost pot-luck after that, but I think Casson and then Kreza have been treated poorly. Hauritz is a spinner of the type that Australia generally views with disdain - a relatively accurate spinner who isn't very threatening.

I don't think Hayden will make it to the Ashes and his form in '05 doesn't suggest he'd be a key player anyway. Jaques and Rogers should be considered in that order, although Hughes is a tantalising option.

As for the 'all-rounder', it's a case of last man standing with Symonds, Watson, and Noffke battling fitness issues. grazman, I also haven't been convinced on on the need for an all-rounder, and thought we could have been better served in the past by a player who could hold his own.

If Haddin can convert his Shield batting prowess to Test match performances it would give us a very capable top six and with a few bowlers who can bat a bit we may be able to churn out enough runs. However, our bowling attack is likely to be pretty inexperienced so we may need some support there.

Regardless of who we choose I think they need to be given a reasonable opportunity. It's fine to drop young players after a few games, but they need an extended run unless chosen as temporary injury replacements.

For the next test, I'd bat MacDonald at 7. Give Haddin more responsibility at 6. If he didn't continually throw his wicket away his average would be so much higher. At 6 maybe he'll recognise that he needs to stick around longer and forge a partnership or two.

Haddin has a better record with the bat and bats higher than McDonald at state level so that would make sense.

However, McDonald's batting average over the past few years is pretty good.

I can't understand why white is currently behind our current spinner let alone in as an allrounder. Maybe he needs to do KFC adds and go fishing a bit more often! He could well be a future captain as well due to his leadership at state level!

I think that says more about our spinner than it does about White's bowling. Cameron White's bowling is unspectacular even at State level, where he's been reluctant to bowl himself.

Maybe he could make a decent future captain but he'd need to cement a spot in the side first.

[QueenC 74]

I spoke to Brett today and he is going in for surgery on Saturday......

This has been a problem in his foot for a while now and he has been playing with pain killers since India. He has been appalled at his figures and hates where he is at.

In fact I found him to be fairly depressed, especially given his "wife" wants sole custody of their little one, and he feels things are coming down on him like a tonne of bricks.

He is a really good guy and hates his utter lack of contribution but don't bet against his competitive nature of wanting to get back into the test side.

He isn't unaware of where he is at, in fact he is quite realistic (unlike a certain opening colleague) but believes that without the injury he'll back to where he was twelve months ago.

Fingers crossed!!!

[H_T 2,941]

Cameron White or Marcus North????

Happy New Year.

Andrew MacDonald?

[H_T 2,941]

Considering he and Siddle went to India, and Bollinger and Hilfenhaus went on the WI tour, you're probably right

Why thanky-you Rogue. Bollinger in for Sydney Test.

AS - 2/10 (7) as above, no impact with ball. Agree but a harsh rating number. Has not bowled that much so unlikely to have impact

BH - 7/10 (5) serviceable. Once finding his feet he has been outstanding with bat and gloves. If he continues this form he could almost cover Gilly.

BL - 1/10 (8) has struggled, maybe injured since before india? He is accountable for his performances. At 33 and injured, I think it might be over for him

MJ - 6/10 (6) one great spell and has not had the impact outside of this. Leading wicket taker in India, leading wicket taker against NZ, Leading wicket taker against SA.....

NH - 3/10 (4) taken a few but no real impact. Limited to containment and wont tear through batting line ups.

PS - 3/10 (4) no impact in perth but better in melbourne. Third test at 24 and he has broken through. Good future.

AS- 1/10

BH- 7/10

BL- 1/10 - I said after the india tour, before the Aussies played NZ that he wasn't right, he should have been rested against NZ. I agree with your assessment.

MJ - 8/10 - Outstanding strike bowler for Punter and the team. Consistently performs at 140km/h +. And looks to have found a good bowling partner in Siddle.

NH - 2/10 - A defensive minded spin bowler who should noty have been selected for SYdney. Krejza should have. Regardless of Melbourne. Krejza is an attacking spin bowler. I prefer to attack than contain.

PS - 6/10 at present with a bullet, Match winning performance of 5/59 in Sydney Test. Coming of age for him.

I was thinking the 80's against NZ.

I think if Symonds fails today then Sydney might be his last Test.....if he get another one.

Agree. But if the Aussies win in Sydney he may see Sth Africa.

BTW, I reckon Siddle has the making of a good fast bowler.

Good call. So do I. Doesn't lose pace over 30 overs from him during a day's play.

Symonds shouldn't have played at all this summer. Either bring in a legit batsman or a bowling allrounder.

I agree. Either 6 Specialist Bats plus Haddin, and 4 specialist bowlers. Or 6 specialist Bats and a legit all-rounder plus Haddin and 3 specialist bowlers - which we don't seem to have a legit all-rounder with Symonds, Watson inj. or out of form and MacDonald our next best option (selectors view).

Mitchell Johnson offers us something as an all rounder IMO. His batting is improving and he's average is on the up (23 -24 at present).

[QueenC 74]

I've been out at the ground for the game for the past three days and the atmosphere has been something else.....

The pink and the emotion has made everyone at the match bond pretty well together and the amount of money raised so far is something we can be proud of.

Magnificent effort from the people who went to the SCG and a testament to Jane McGrath. I hope he would have been honoured.

Also a pretty good game to watch!!!

[montasaurus 0]

The test that siddle played in India he by far looked the most dangerous bowler so lets cross fingers. I wonder who will open as I get the feeling Johnson is not seen as a new ball bowler so maybe siddle and lee.

SIDDLE YOU STAR!

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Agree. But if the Aussies win in Sydney he may see Sth Africa.

I think Symonds is in no man's land. He's not batting well. His knee does not allow him to bowl or field to his capabilities. Off field he is a fly in the ointment.

If Watson was fit then I think the door will be shut. Be interested to see if he is selected for one days. If not then he is gone.

Good call. So do I. Doesn't lose pace over 30 overs from him during a day's play.

I think we have seen the future of the bowling attack with Siddle and Johnson. Johnsons maturity as a cricketer over the past 12 months has been astounding.

I agree. Either 6 Specialist Bats plus Haddin, and 4 specialist bowlers.

I think thats for me

Mitchell Johnson offers us something as an all rounder IMO. His batting is improving and he's average is on the up (23 -24 at present).

He is a luxury at 9. Fits in well at 8 behind Haddin at 7. Very good on a benign pitch thats straight up and down. Wonder what he is like with the bat with ball moving about in England.

[Rogue 585]

I've been out at the ground for the game for the past three days and the atmosphere has been something else.....

What have the crowd figures like? I heard commentators mentioning the size of the crowd was a little disappointing on the first day.

Agree. But if the Aussies win in Sydney he may see Sth Africa.

What's his role?

If he's not bowling I can't see how he can claim a spot in the team as he's far from the best #6 we could play.

I agree. Either 6 Specialist Bats plus Haddin, and 4 specialist bowlers. Or 6 specialist Bats and a legit all-rounder plus Haddin and 3 specialist bowlers

You're probably short on bowlers in the first scenario unless one of the bats can reliably bowl a few overs.

You're definitely short on bowlers in the second scenario, particularly given our inexperienced attack.

Mitchell Johnson offers us something as an all rounder IMO. His batting is improving and he's average is on the up (23 -24 at present).

Johnson's not an all-rounder. His batting might develop, but it's got a fair way to go IMO.

PS. In case anyone wanted to chime in on Lee, he's not an all-rounder either.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Johnson's not an all-rounder. His batting might develop, but it's got a fair way to go IMO.

PS. In case anyone wanted to chime in on Lee, he's not an all-rounder either.

Agree.

I was thinking that Johnson's good form with ball and bat is in the Brett Lee mould.

[montasaurus 0]

Is that now it for hayden? I still can't believe both he and cricket australia did not agree that this would be his last test be it early in the summer or even last week. All the pressure would have been off, we as supporters could have been given a chance to fairwell a champion. so now what? SA or Eng? keeping hayden and everybody else hanging just makes no sense.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

So when is the declaration going to be?

1/2 hour before tea.......Aust 3/199, 317 in front. If they can get to 400+ in front with an hour before stumps, they could make in roads. If a wicket falls I would play Haddin at six to get the scoreboard ticking.

Factors to consider: Smith wont bat until the death knell if at all. If he does he will struggle. So SA has to rejig the batting order. Alot falls on the shoulders of Siddle, Johnson and Bollinger (whose luck must change). Very little spin ATM but will the pitch crumble.

Its important that Australia chases (and hopefully gets the victory). With half the side having not experienced a real win agasinst good competition (eg Haddin, Johnson, Siddle, Bollinger and Hauritz) so far it will give the young guns some much needed confidence that they can get 20 wickets and win. It will also set them up to take some confidence on the SA tour. If they can win/draw the series in SA, then they should be good enough to retain the Ashes. However, a flogging in SA leaves us in poor stead for the Ashes defence

[montasaurus 0]

375-400 and/or min 1hr at them tonight.

IMO - A draw is as bad as a loss for us at the moment. Therefore we must give us maximum time to bowl them out.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

375-400 and/or min 1hr at them tonight.

IMO - A draw is as bad as a loss for us at the moment. Therefore we must give us maximum time to bowl them out.

While we must seek a victory in the first instance, a draw would not be so bad given we have been so comprehensively outplayed in the first two tests. Regardless of the result, this has been a far better showing by the Aussies this time around.

Smith being out really does take their lead batsman out and denies them a good kickstart to their chase. Who will open with McKenzie?? De Villiers? If the bowlers can derive some indifferent bounce then the pressure will surely be on the SAs.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

375-400 and/or min 1hr at them tonight.

Have a cigar! B)

[H_T 2,941]

Good declaration IMO by Punter. Much better than batting Sth Africa out of the game.

[montasaurus 0]

375-400 and/or min 1hr at them tonight.

Have a cigar! B)

Wasn't rocket science to work that one out but i'll take it!

While i'm on a role I might make a call from left field. Mcdonald will be the missing like that we have not had in Melb and Perth. Our quicks have bowled well overall for the series with only a couple of bad sessions between them, but that will happen with a young attack.

on Hauritz, I haven't changed my opinion......

What are the Aust selectors on???????????

This selection may force me to not even watch any of this game! What a joke I could bowl underarm to the KIWIs and not go for nearly 10 an over!

So this is our biggest weakness and unlike to change today. Clarke is injured, Katich I have heard has a shoulder issue, punters too old to bowl, symonds has been unable to bowl. Therefore when a partnership comes which it will - who will break it? it has to be Mcdonald. Therefore he needs 2-3 wickets today for us to win. A crumbeling track, ball not coming onto the bat, variable bounce - ideal for a med bowler.

if this doesn't happen either siddle or johnson need a big 5 wicket bag to get us home.

Also what was SA thinking opening with a night watchman with over 1hr to play?? madness, but we will take it!