Strafford

This thread has gone quiet:)

Yes indeed. Is it all the players fault? The coaches? Admin? Probably a mixture and it would vary for each individual.

Where am I bagging Neeld? I question some of his decisions, or probably more accurately some of his implementation and timing. I am not questioning the recruiting of Jones and Terlich they are contributing. My response was to a post on mature age recruits. Which players do you consider the one or two?

It is interesting isn't it. I imagine the Hawks expected players such as Hodge, Mitchell etc to step up as leaders in the future, but appointed a bridge captain for that time and place. I read somewhere, but can't remember where, that senior West Coast players would show new players examples of gut running and that that was what was expected at the club.

That is part of the problem as I see it. Our disposal numbers both this year and last are a fair bit off the pace. Is it really as simplistic as we have just a poor midfield or is it game style as well. To me it is probably a bit of both. I agree with many who have mentioned in various threads that confidence and self belief is part of our problem. I just wish we shared the love a bit and tossed the pill about a bit more.

Fair points, but he didn't look at game day leadership. Why not wait until after at least a few of the pre-season games to see how they went about it on matchday?

Come on mate. If you are recruiting a 25 year old from one of the lesser leagues, especially the VFL, where they have been playing against a number of AFL listed players and don't expect them to make an immediate impact, then you are doing a poor job of recruiting. Many don't get much better than their first year. You cannot give the same time to develop to a 25 year old as you do an 18 or 19 year old. Which is a problem I have with Neeld continually linking Jones and Terlich to his 100 games experience premiership model.

Is that 11 wines per game mate? We are all searching for ways to numb the pain:)

Voss could be gone by years end mate. Being a club legend has helped him keep his job so far, but they are still playing more poor games than good.

If they do proceed with Neeld a few more players will still have to be moved on. All clubs have their cliques, but I can't see how there couldn't still be a fracture with some of the senior players still at the club. The press for all that we like to believe they do, don't generally just make things up. They generally do have at least one source. The problem of course is if they aren't getting a balanced view due to talking to the disgruntled. I did say generally though lol At least with the better ones anyway.

That will be the problem as well as the financial ramifications. You would think that Neelds player clearout isn't finished.

Thanks mate:) There is no question they are good kids, I just wish they didn't have to spend that "inordinate amount of time supporting their team-mates" It wouldbe much easier for them to be able to concentrate more on their own games and getting their bodies right.

That is part of the point mate. Jack G came into the league after a nasty injury. He has had injuries whilst in the league and is injured now. Wouldn't it have been better for him to establish himself as a player and make sure his body is right?

Thanks to all those reporting on the meeting. Much appreciated. Just a couple of questions. Did the guys mention what the categories were that the players were judged on? Also was the input equal or was that of the coaches given a higher value? To me regardless of the process appointing the two Jacks, it was a mistake. Not because I don't think the kids have leadership ability, but just because I don't think they were ready. I had a bit to do with Jack G when he was at the Knights. It was obvious then that he was going to be captaincy material someday. Just a very impressive young man. I do not know enough about Jack T personally, but people I do know and trust, believe that he also has a number of leadership traits. Given the emphasis that Neeld has put on experience as an indicator of a successful side, surely he must have realised the pressure kids who hadn't even played forty games would be under with the added responsibility. Nor did the way they went about it enable them to see who could do the job on matchday during the regular season. As they have found being training champs doesn't always translate to onfield success. On the culture change. I totally agree something had to be done, but a guy who nearly lost his job because of some of those players was part of the process. Does anyone seriously believe that it really was a clean slate? If it was just about the captaincy for Beamer, why did he have such a good year the year before? Was he sulking then as well when he didn't get the top job? I don't disagree with a number of the decisions made under Neeld. I do disagree with some of the timing and how some things were carried out.

In the interests of education. Google Irish and ape like cartoons.

Why is that post of the year mate? Demons 32 has just given an out to people not to change their views. "You lot are an utter disgrace" " White people will never really get it" What incentive is there to change or to become educated if they are going to be lumped into the same group anyway.

I firmly believe, as many others seem to, that it is not just Neeld's fault and sacking him will not suddenly turn us into a better side. With that said, I do also believe that he is gone. He has faced numerous issues, but some of his actions have only exacerbated many of them, but other moves should bear positive fruit in the future. What I will add is that I found many of his statements about our games experience and the big bodies of the Gold Coast players perplexing given what he said on the "inside word" before the game against Gold Coast last season.

Although I am white as can be, I can sympathise as to where Goodes is coming from. Having a very Irish last name, I copped a fair bit of grief as a kid during the troubles in Ireland. Drove me nuts lol My family have lived in Australia for a number of generations and the main line actually came from Spain...long story lol. The point being a number of pretty offensive terms were thrown my way for reasons I really didn't understand. The term ape and monkey have long been used to denigrate people as sub human. Many racist tracts have used brow ridges, hue of skin etc and thus are closer to apes, to try to prove that black people are inferior. Education is key. The media handled the issue poorly. If the kid used the term in ignorance, they should have just moved on from the girl and explained why the term was offensive in that context. Hanging her out to dry served no purpose and only clouded the education opportunity.

McKenzie was one of our best until half time anyway. Playing as a defensive half forward he kept Harbrow to six touches until half time, he picked up 32 the week before. Not so good the second half when moved onto Ablett, but Dunn had already let him off the hook. McKenzie has his limitations, but at least he has a go.

As others have said mate, if only it was that simple. How do you explain for example, Geelong losing to Port at the Cattery and then a few weeks later smashing them in a grand final? Motivation is a very complex thing. Both coaches and players have a big part to play. To me it is never one or the other.

An interesting article, with a number of valid themes. Murphy will do well in the media, at the end of his career.

Yep and this midfielder must also be able to handle a tag, as they will be and we aren't as yet good at helping a player being tagged. Which is my doubt on a Thomas trade, FA. I think he is a good player, but with Pendles and Swan in the team, how often is he tagged?We would have to pay him a fortune to get him and to me this is a big question mark.

Just been a bit unlucky that we haven't had Trengove, Viney, Jones, Sylvia and Grimes in the same side this season....

I realise you are taking the p, but I was referring to the midfield as it stands now and in relation to this year, but carry on. Hyperbole and all lol

We also need blokes with a brain who can help organise structures and set ups onfield. So that situations such as Trent McKenzie being able to waltz into goal unmarked because of a poor stoppage set up are less likely to happen. Just look at the good sides and you can see just how important onfield leaders are. His articles show that he has a brain, but you are right in that he has to translate that into onfield performance, but that performance is multi faceted.