Bombay Airconditioning

Only to be negotiated down to the mid to late 20's.

So it's a top 20 pick then.

I think it's fair to say that all the junior comps around the country are well run but some kids for whatever reasons don't respond to the system their in but for geographical reasons are stuck in that system for the duration of their junior career. If kids are competitive and can use the footy good clubs will teach them how they want them to play.

Appreciate the info but you did say that was pre season. Fast forward 8 months and after insipid performances against Essendon and Carlton and I would be very surprised if another 6 aren't moved on. I agree about the stability and players being familiar which each but there's still 6-7 players who need to be removed in a hurry.

With regards to trading/free agency it's all about who's available. I'm surprised Richmond didn't chase Garlett. I think part of them not chasing was they were setting themselves for Treloar this year. For each club learning is different. Richmond still managed to beat Freo/Hawthorn/Sydney. They were in their final for the first 3/4. I don't think it was personnel issues for them as much as it was mental. That's three first round exits in a row. Should they make finals again next year, regardless of who they bring in this year the pressure on them to win a final will be enormous.

1 - must be a natural competitor2 - elite skills 3 - footy smarts Not being smart but the successful clubs have been drafting kids with those traits for years.

Playing in finals would give players an idea of how the pressure is different and how certain rules are relaxed or in the case of last weeks games overruled. But just because your playing in a final doesn't necessarily mean you will learn.In your opinion what have North and Richmond learnt over the past couple of seasons. Some of our players are so stupid they obviously thought that by Roos coaching that it would translate in automatic wins, they forgot the part that they have to learn, evolve as players and sadly in some cases try.

Four winsLast year 1 - Essendon, enough said. 2 - Cats, a team in decline. This year 3 - Richmond, chokers, jump at their own shadows come September. 4 - Sydney, severely undermanned. I think the Dogs got more out of this final series than North. That's the way I look at it anyway.

Our club needs only to look as far as the Hawks on Friday night, yes they sung the song with gusto but there was no North Melbourne like carry on. We get wrapped up by winning a home and away match then get flogged the following week. That's why the mentally weak/scarred non competitive players on our list must be removed ASAP.

Wasnt it you yesterday saying "Because that's what I meant....FMD"? Wasn't that your response when someone misinterpreted what you said. Maybe you haven't misinterpreted mine maybe we just look at football differently. Teams that were hoping to make finals last year but didn't in Suns/Giants/Pies plus let's add the Doggies who did make it and teams that were a little way off like us and the Saints(I didn't include Port because they had an off year and will bounce back) Now if any of those won those two finals being Richmond and Sydney to me you could say they have improved this year. Norths home and away season consisted of 2 wins over Essendon/Lions/Geelong, a 9 point win over the Eagles early in the season and a 11 point win over Fremantle late in the year. It also includes routine losses to the Hawks and a full strength Sydney, an absolute drubbing against Fremantle when they were steamrolling sides early in the season and late season losses to the Suns and Dogs. I remember hearing late in the year North have won 7 straight and then you look at who they played. They made a prelim last year after beating the Bombers by 12 and Geelong by 6 before having their pants removed by Sydney. That's why in the finals thread after North beat Sydney I said "look at the players carrying on, look at Brayshaw and Scott carrying on, getting around handing out high fives and touching each other. Where were the leaders saying calm down we haven't achieved anything yet". Richmond defeated Freo/Sydney/Hawks all at close to full strength on their home grounds but finals are different. They were destined to choke again and they did. Vickers who kicked 6/7? against the Pies only weeks earlier couldn't hit them from 20 out straight in front. The Tigers of old had returned to haunt themselves as many predicted. North managed to bumble across the line only coming good late in the game. Then North played Sydney minus Buddy/Reid/Parker/Jack plus Lewis Jetta who was already trying on Freo's jumper and cooked players in Shaw/Goodes/McVeigh and Richards. To be honest that was the only final game I missed but from all reports the game was a mess with both sides making simple errors and poor skills on display. North surprised a lot of people including myself against the Eagles but they lost. Yes there were some bad umpiring decisions that went both ways. Now maybe this is just me because most teams do it but North and Richmond play for the most frees, throwing their heads back/ducking in tackles of trying to barge their way out of congestion head first. Norths final campaign was drew big donuts, as I previously said had they played Dogs/Crows week 1 or Hawks week 2 they would have been knocked out earlier. 16 other clubs will hope that Richmond and North don't change their coach and again pick up the scraps with regards to trades/free agency because that will mean more of the same from two of the biggest pretenders in recent times.

Cant agree, doggies will take another step, port will be back, then you've got Hawks/Eagles/Freo if they trade well. North just scrapped into 8th. Their first two wins in the finals didn't mean much in my book.

I wouldn't read too much into Norths season. If they played dogs/crows week 1 or Hawks week 2 everyone would be saying that free agency backfired on them. Tigers than Swans was a dream run.

Anyone seen Kieran Collins getting about?

I haven't received that offer as yet. And what if I want Ellie Blackburn??

Plus COLA, do we honestly believe the swans divvy it up between the whole team. A player on 200k gets told they can only give him 180k and 20k of COLA as opposed to 200 plus 20.

I want Toumpas gone but I get the whole "it's just one place on the list argument". To me this is about freeing up cash to make a play for someone else not about list space. I honestly believe next year could be the last for the likes of Watts and Grimes if they remain on our list. What are we honestly expecting in return for him? We have to be realistic. If this did go through then two days later we heard that we've offered player x 800k for five years and he's agreed to terms we'd all be wetting our pants.

Angry at Casey posted today that Grimes is out the door.What would the combined salary of Watts/Grimes be, I'd guess anywhere from 650-800k. Both contracted for next year and both dropped at least twice throughout the year.

Goodes spent the later part of his career as a half forward plus they have lost/are going to loose Jetta. They have a surplus of inside players. Watts gets out of the Melbourne spotlight.

He did stress it was a rumour but it's what he heard. I look at it this way, Robinson could be the next VB or could be the next Cook. Watts needs a fresh start, if he's on 3-400k that's extra cap space to throw at someone else. We may not get back what we perceive to be of equal value, for us it might be about the extra money. Small part of a big picture.

I had to google him as well. We all should know Bird, Robinson plays wing/half forward. Not sure how to post links but from reading on the swans website he's been stuck in the NEAFL behind sone pretty handy players.

My swans mate reckons he heard today Watts to Sydney for Craig Bird and Daniel Robinson.

Granted, but hopefully not 4 years at the speculated price. Or is it just that......speculation.

Do t know a lot about him myself. No one I know rates him. Not a lot of love for him on FB. Going of the 1 year for Pedo and no contract for Toumpas if the club does pick him up surely it's for two years on minimum wage.

Watts/Grimes/Dawes/Toupmas need to show more this year or risk next year being their last in the game.

Any mention of Redden?