TGR

To be fair, my opinion wont change after one good or bad game from JL. I wasn't prepared to judge him after a 10 goal win a few weeks ago, so should I refrain from further judgement from what should have been a 10-goal-plus loss to Sydney last Friday night? I am trying to....honestly. All I will point to 'at the present time' (Gerard Healyism), is to point to the pre-game Foxtel green/red graph, which highlighted every MFC player, and rated them with similar players in their specific age group across the league. So this is comparing 20 year olds with 20 year olds, and 31 year olds with 31 year olds. For memory, we had a majority of our players in the green (output better when compared to players in the comp of similar age). Jordan was significantly red. Now that is a fact based on his output for the MFC in his first half of the season in the Melbourne jumper. Not my opinion. Not a biased club opinion, where he may finish an artificial 12th in the B&F to support their decision-making. pTGR

Ouch

It is the nature of the extreme right to think of "me". It is the nature of the extreme left to think of minorities and "we". If there was a dichotomous choice, there is really no contest. You can gush over your flag-bearers in Hanson, Bolt, (Trump), Abbott, Bernardi, Howard etc.... who invariably advertise that they are in-touch with the "average person". They are essentially nationalists championing a cause of "me". They are into "free speech" until you say something mildly negative about Anzac day or George Pell. To use a Gillardism, who history will look favourably on BTW, the sensible centre doesn't need to be lectured to by the likes of the far right, who play the "fear" card, the "what about me?" card, and really aim accurately to the lowest common denominator in the electorate. Now, whether this is a richard-swinging contest or a fannie-exhibition is of no concern, nor relevance to me.

A bit flat Martin? You seemed to have had more zest and energy last week. FWIW, his inside stuff is good....it has to be, because he is a liability on the outside, and often goes to ground leaving us -1. All I said last November, is that we are not getting the player we (club, media, and 99% of the public) think we are getting. Don't worry about getting thru 2 years of a 3 year deal, when I thought getting through 1 would defy objective clear logic. As one of the toughest most courageous players the game has seen, this player, with no tricks, was battle-weary in latter 2016. Lewis and Mitchell finished 1&2 in their B&F, but look at how Hawthorn got pulverised in the clearances and contested possessions in 2016. Yes his leadership record is high percentile; yes he is a calming influence: but at what cost? He goes to ground more than Simon Eishold. Internally, he is frustrated as he knows the game might be past him. Accordingly, he loses it occasionally which is the antithesis of leadership. Watch this space. Finally, for those that point to the coincidence of Lewis equals win, then what, Flower equals loss? With that logic, should we keep Hogan at Casey? Blind Fred suspects we could have carried Cale Morton for a similar W/L record. Actually, this debate is Morton Mark II. The last 2 games potentially in any year are for keeps, invariably on a big ground. Will he be exploited by a quick team and a sharp coach? I fear it. pTGR

At the minute, I'd choose my mate who has never done it before, over Sir Edmund Hillary.

Primary school quote of the season. FWIW, I back the tigs to miss the 8 a month or 2 ago. I would show you the crownbet slip, but your teacher would frown on it, and I shouldn't talk to little boys.

My advice to you lot is that you don't judge players in 10 goal wins. Otherwise, Josh Caddy, Luke Bruest, Mitch Duncan and to a lesser extent Jack Gunston, are worthy of back-to-back All Australian status.

Post of the thread. I thought Cross had something left, when Roosy showed him the door. Cross kept his on-field value to the end. He was a role-model in most aspects. Slowish, but didn't really lose what he had. More importantly, rarely lost his feet. Lewis on the other hand, has pedal dementia. Lewis won't limp to the line. My view was that he limped into the 3 year deal. I am not talking about the third year, when year one has been a big enough issue for me.

The general-after-the-war has spoken. A 'balanced assessment' given as the penny crashes into the turf. Does he now think Bevo is the best coach going around? What about Joe Daniher? Does he think he has passed Jesse, and on the way to the Coleman? Garry is the ultimate general-after-the-war, as are many here. Don't get me started on Neeldy either. Lyon was a good player, and great kick. An exceptional captain with question marks on his inclusiveness of the fringe. That doesn't make you a great thinker about this game. It doesn't put you a step ahead of the pack. He is doubting Lewis' pace in years to come, but highlighted the obvious deficit last Monday. The cynic in me thinks...as a good mate of Todd Viney and others, Lyon is trying to soften the landing for those responsible at the MFC. A bit like pre-budget leaking of new harsh measures. Where was the media on this last November? Who stuck their neck out then to predict the utterly predictable? No, they all clapped without thinking; like the masses. Didn't pause one moment to think in a balanced way then. It was all about what could go right only. And for those that think he cost us nothing, gee, I wouldn't mind the club having his wage at our disposal banked up for 18/19. We are in the window, we should top up wisely....objectively, without seduction. pTGR

If Nick Kyrgios does the same, we label it un-Australian?

Unlike Joeboy, I didn't have the luxury of sitting back, assessing his whole game, reflect, ring Finey then type like a warrior. At half-time, blind freddy could see he was shot, and there was no way he was going to come back, like the team eventually did. Most games this year under Goodwin, Melbourne have had a horrible quarter and a great one. My post would have looked stupid by the end of the game if he pulled his finger out and carried us home. I also didn't go the comfort zone last November and suggest that....he will be lucky to play 2.5 years of a 3 year deal. I put my gonad on the line and said then, what some now are finally fearing. He is gone. The game has past him. Going to ground and losing your feet regularly, is the first indicator surely. Clarkson's decisions on moving Lewis and Mitchell was a masterstroke. O'Meara's knee is another issue all together. I was never for a 3 year deal nor a 2 year deal. We got seduced by the romance of a name player wanting to come to us. We got seduced by the player he was and not the player he is and will be. As I said in November, when father-time comes, it can come quickly, especially if you have no tricks (speed like Boomer; strength-mobility like Ablett Jr.) . Jordan Lewis has no tricks. No speed. No overhead prowess. No change-of-direction wizardry. He has had a massive career of unparalleled courage and hits; and if anyone in the league should be battle-weary by age 31, it is him. Pretty easy for Jordan and his throng of supporters (at SEN and demonology, and the MFC board, and MFC list management) to put egg on the face of those of us that dare say the earth may not be flat. All he has to do is play footy worthy of player 14-18 on the list I would have thought....week in...week out in 2017 and 2018. I am laying on my back, eyes closed, and here is a dozen. For those that point to the games we lost without him, should insist that the club not pick Hogan because we have won a few without him. My advice to the natives is, don't worry about the intangible you think is "leadership". That is a get-out. That is the dumbest of the dumb safety net that the simpleton holds on to, with 3 fingernails. Look deeper for once. Switch off Robbo on 360. Switch off Finey on SEN. Switch off Wacky Wednesday with Cameron Schwab. Give your brain a chance to work like it could. Stop walking with the herd. A carbon tax wasn't going to kill us. A left hand right hand opening batting combination wasn't going to be a panacea. Look at him lose his feet at most 40/60 contests, which result in us being -1 immediately. Look at turnover, when Bevo makes sure that the outlet is the guy Lewis is chasing or responsible for. Where have the thinkers gone? pTGR

"Most of us think the earth is flat" "Hang on, I think it might be round" So a balanced view is what? The earth is shaped like a banana? Nothing balanced about this trade dichotomy. The football world thought Melbourne got a steal. Go back to November 2016...and only a few objective thinkers thought it was going to be a stinker. pTGR

The way you guys carry on about liability leaders; we might as well get Voss out of retirement as well. Who lead the bulldogs last September? No disrespect to you, but Viney and Jones have them covered. The penny is dropping. You guys are hoping gravity and father-time is defied.

We should have appointed him as runner then. Problem is, that Goody would only get 4 messages out per quarter.

Not saying he should go to VFL. I am saying he should have retired at the end of last year. Not blaming him. Good luck to him. If I was him, I would have signed the 3 year deal. I am blaming the consensus of wisdom that is SEN, a majority here, and those that didn't stand up with a clear head at the club when he called Todd Viney. A 3 year deal for a guy who should have retired in 2017, will go down as an absolute clanger.

We weren't winning at half-time.

2.5 more years of carrying this guy.....tick tock tick tock. Loses his feet more than any other player since Simon Eishold. The experts and majority were wrong on this one. pTGR

Easy solution. Give him 20 shots at goal from 35 out on a 45 degree angle. Every goal he kicks, he gets $100k per year on his contract. Don't think they will be up for 2 mill a year.

Gee wiz, MFC attracting a player with speed has been the: - exception (Garlett) - not the rule - (Vince, Melksham, Lewis, Tyson....) Stretch isn't doing enough at this early stage, and Garlett doesn't line-break through a defence; but rather Garlett is great out the back. We have over-dosed on inside strength, and have an under-supply of line-breaking outside speed from D50. Jones will be considered, irrespective of family.

If we get half a year of OK footy, that is more than I predicted. The game has passed him by. No pace. No tricks forward as a superannuation. His suspension against Carlton overshadowed numerous losing of the feet. Can't believe that a majority of our supporters hailed this decision to give a 3 year deal to him. Mitchell and Lewis had great years last year, but Hawthorn got pulverised in contested ball and clearances. Leadership experience whatever. Bulldogs didn't really need it last year. Small sample size yes, but they didn't need it.

Yes Caro. How dare you print the truth without the blokey SEN hyperbole MMM white male boys club carp...that is often music to the ears of the simpleton.

He only actually realised the sacrifices over the past 12 months. Most potential draftees realise it at least 3-4 years beforehand. In 2014, Oliver was "tubby" according to a few teammates at the Bushrangers. If you consider how far he has come in a short time of "discipline over indulgence" (Lyonism), the upside you see might actually be higher.

At least Roosy/Goody get another maniac on the field in the Red and Blue.

Brainstorming exercise..................... If Fyfe was a Victorian (and he's not), would you consider Fyfe for Hogan plus 3rd round pick this Christmas. The lure for Hogan to go home and awful supply will get to him eventually. What would WC give up for him? Gaff (23 y.o) & Shuey? Gaff, Lamb and 1st round pick next year? Hogan's price is high. If the inevitable will happen one day, might as well cash in big in the boom.

Have we got a black'n'white instagram pic or slide of young Jack having a go at the older school bully?