Lucifers Hero

I also recall that said but not sure it came from someone at the club or a media commentator. And, I guess it depends where on our pay scale the FA lands. As you say, if Jones' and Lewis contracts were front ended then their won't be much extra coin so with the AFL rules of not banking sal cap I don't see where the money for a highly paid FA will come from. As an aside, if we use our sal cap to bring in another player at the top end of our salary range (ala Lever and May) while our existing talent are kept in the upper middle range, I wouldn't blame their manager's starting to looking elsewhere.

Could be. I recall that during the year we signed Brayshaw on reportedly good coin. At some stage we re-signed Max and Jetta who deserved good coin and I think TMc was also re-signed. So maybe we used up the Gaff money for existing players. I really don't know tbh. Its worth noting that sal cap rules allow a carryover of only 5% so clubs cannot build a $bank. So not sure we would have a kitty for this year anyway.

The Watts and Hogan money was spent on Lever and May respectively and by all reports are our two highest paid players. You may be right about some sal cap space with Lewis and other players going this year but I don't expect it to be huge especially with other existing player contracts to renew in the next 6-18 months. If Jones goes then it may free up a fair chunk of coin. Otherwise, we probably won't have many chips to spend.

...because they beat us by a big margin that gives them the %'age to be in the 8. I don't find it consoling ?

6 games to the bye. The team showed some good signs on Wed night. imv only essential (injury) changes until the bye. Let the current selected team settle and let the coaches experiment with positional moves, strategy tweaks and tactics with them. After the bye, bring back the longer term injuries and we go again. Really important to have a good second half of the year. So changes this week: Viney and ANB if he doesn't recover.

Brad Scott's thin skin shows again: :.. admits that stinging criticism from club greats could become a distraction for his team..." "But it’s a fact that it can become a distraction. Particularly when a club that prides itself on being really tight and really strong has people nipping around the edges." Carey and King criticise North That is a startling admission and would imagine more distracting to his players knowing that their coach is taking on board what commentators say. Commentators who are paid to create click bait. King and Carey aren't giving worse than we got from the likes of Lyon and Schwartz for a few years. Scott could learn a lot form Goodwin: tell his team it is all 'fugazzi'!

Not exactly on topic but any chance of bringing Jetta 'back into the fold' so to speak. He looks like an outsider lost in the dark, going in the opposite direction to everyone else. Maybe, Jetta can have center stage!! Said it when the banner went up that May hadn't earned the right to be there, let alone have center stage. Still think that. Would be happy to see him replaced altogether.

There are some more factual errors in there which I won't bother to correct. There is only so much anyone can do to rebuild a rubbish list in 3 seasons. Roos set out to rebuild our midfield/on-ball brigade. With Taylor he added: Salem, Tyson, Petracca, Oliver, Harmes, Hunt, Stretch, ANB, AVB, Garlett. While some will succeed more than others, it was a good balance of speed, strength, skill. imv therein is the core of our future premiership team. For that alone, Roos should be lauded. Along with the players he inherited (some of whom he developed close to career best performances): Gawn, Jetta, Watts, Viney, Jones, TMac, Hogan, he left us with a decent spine and a very good and promising group of on-ballers. Roos hasn't been involved in list management decisions in 3-4 seasons. And his game plan has been all but thrown out. If anything I see Roos' legacy holding us together with the players (less trade-outs) mentioned above being in our prelim team or current 22. It isn't his fault our depth was traded out, that many players came back unfit or we now play an aggressive game plan so I find it very hard to say that our current predicament is within his legacy. Over and out on this subject.

Thanks for highlighting that RD. I was just trying to correct one of the myths about the interrupted preseason and in particular the 'double ankle' surgery for Tom. It seems Tom missed the AFLX 'game' but was in the JLT squads so he effectively had a normal preseason - everyone has niggles and spends some time in 'rehab'. Going on the training reports players on light duties are often in the 'rehab' group.

Have put comments in red. Not aimed at you DeeS but there is quite a bit of incorrect or rewriting of history in this thread. I make the above commetns in the hope stuff in this thread doesn't become folklore/fact.

Maybe we should sack Roos! Oh, wait... I can't believe people are revisiting his tenure. A few facts: Most of our list have been recruited under Goodwin's watch (Roos let him have a major say in 2015 and he wasn't there for 2016, 2017, 2018) or were on the list pre-Roos. I count 12 players on our list recruited during Roos time and most of them played in the Prelim and are currently best 22. None of them slow, in fact include our fastest: Hunt, Frost and Gartlett Goodwin has hand picked his assistant coaching staff. Roos didn't single handedly choose Goodwin. Roos had hardly heard of him -Viney brought him into the club. Roos' hand-picked choice was Dew. Our current game plan of high zones, forward half etc are nothing like Roos' defence first/back shoulder game plan. I'm not saying one is better just saying we can't hold Roos responsible for how we currently play. There were good reasons for letting Howe and Dunn go like there were for letting Hogan and Watts go. Anyway, Goodwin was part of the decision making to let Howe and Dunn go. Who has Goodwin recruited with speed? If folks want to complain about the list maybe look at Todd Viney and to a lesser extent Jason Taylor. I see a lot more players in the image of TV/SG contested beasts. We aren't travelling well but as supporters we need to stop dredging up all sorts of history that means nothing now and blaming anyone who has been at the club.

The latest incident is one he couldn't avoid. More generally, maybe he should learn Dusty's fend off rather than tuck the ball under his arm - he has lost any speed he had before his toe injury and gives away a free kick every time often costing us momentum. Edit: Decision on whether he has surgery will be made next Monday. Viney Assessment

Just for the record, Tom Mc double ankle surgery was the in September 2017 not this preseason. https://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-12-01/ankle-surgery-keeps-young-demon-off-track I haven't found any reference to him having surgery or other injury issues in this preseason.

He was off for about 20 min after the knock in the last quarter ie about 16% making him available to play for a max 84% time. But he played only 59% of that, having the equivalent of a full quarter off in the first 3. Certainly looks like he was being nursed. Playing him underdone just puts pressure on other players especially mids to cover his work load. Very tiring for a midfield that lacks fitness. Bring in someone who can at least play 80% game time. Good time for a rest/surgery.

Comparing the Junior debacle with Jones is comparing apples and oranges. Junior had no forewarning. Entitled to feel let down by and bitter toward the club. Very, very badly (mis) managed. With Jones, Goodwin and Mahoney will already be having the 'what does your future look like after football' conversation. I can't see them shying away from the difficult decisions. Whatever Jones' chosen field is after football, the club will help him along that path. We owe him that. But we don't owe him extra playing time for nostalgic or romantic reasons. Even if he stays another year what are the chances of a premiership? Just like it was sad to see another proud and loyal #2 miss out on the ultimate prize it will be sad for Jones. Another year might get him to 300 if he plays every game. No guarantee he will. Jones' is struggling. A few cameos a year isn't enough. The club comes first.

For anyone who would care to comment. I've lost interest.

Thank you. I take heart from someone within the club saying our game plan is an issue (ie it isn't just the players): "we might need to look at that [the way we play]. We've been beaten pretty much the same style each week" Lewis is saying Clarkson did just that in 2010. Hope Goodwin can be flexible and creative?

Without naming the coach (altho feel free to give a hint ?) do you believe their dissatisfaction is valid?

Agree. But doubt Pert will get rid of Mahoney bring someone in over the top of him for a Balme type even tho that is what we need. Staff changes, if they happen will be below Mahoney and Goodwin. But that will be next year, if they happen. So we are dependent on Mahoney and Goodwin et al to get us out of this mess this year. Whether we can afford it or not that is all we have. I like your suggestion of Gubby. But he has been at he Saints for only six months. Can he be enticed away? Were he and Pert mates at the Pies? As an aside, Lethlean (as GM Football ie Mahoney's equivalent) has done a great job at the Saints. Overhauled list management, changed assistant coaches brought in specialist coaches: Slater, Brereton. Can't really see Mahoney doing similar as most coaching/football staff have been appointed during his watch.

Have been saying this for over a year and posted similar several times this week. Mahoney, Goodwin and most of our assistant coaches have only one stint in their current jobs. Those stints have been for just a few years while there has been constant improvement. Collectively they have little experience managing in turbulent times. Roos and PJ covered that in recent years. No organisation can carry that much inexperience in one department. Unfortunatley, I can't see us getting a Balme type person ie GM Football as that is the position Mahoney was promoted to some years ago with Daniel Mc Pherson as the Football Manager. They just have to learn on the job and we hope that they get it sorted quickly ?

Gas-lighting?

There are simple reasons why we can't connect going i50 - in the last two years we have let go (for good reason) most of our best field kicks to i50 in Watts and Hogan (when he played upfield) and to some extent Kent. Complemented by Hannan and Fritsch we were getting enough qulaity delivery to offset the butchering and blind bombs from our midfielders. By sheer weight of i50 numbers we scored often enough to win. - Fritsch is no longer the link-up player we lauded him for (correctly) as the Watts replacement but he is now languishing in defence. - When Hogan played fwd he would mark or bring the ball to ground (then sulk) giving us a chance at ground level. Our problem was not letting players go. It is the cumulative effect of all of them going/not being played in the fwd half without their skills being replaced. So our i50 are now appalling in quantity and quality, our forwards aren't experienced enough against good defenders and there is no one to create a contest in the air. Of course their are other i50 connect problems but I believe they start from the above.

Some fair comments. The bolded part are the foundations at every club. These days players don't last long at any club without them. All clubs need more strings to their bow and we don't seem to have them, not even after 3-4 years of list management/player development of Goodwin and Mahoney calling the shots. After reading Redleg's comment I'm not confident we are going to add the layers you speak of any time soon.

Hope said MFC officials see it differently this season or we are going nowhere!

Very disappointing for coaches to say one thing then do another. Hardly does anything for morale/trust. Your bro has good reason to be upset.