Ricky P

Misogyny is a hatred of women. All McGuire's comments revealed was that he disliked Wilson, not that he disliked her because she was a woman. The fact that you go on in your post to say he wouldn't make the same comments about females in his own family shows that McGuire doesn't hate women and is not in fact a misogynist. I think that falsely accusing people of misogyny, sexism, racism and homophobia is almost as bad as those things themselves. So I would advise you to be more accurate in future. All I want is a single persuasive argument that off-colour humour has any substantive impact on levels of domestic violence. In 8 pages of discussion no-one has been able to provide me with that. Violence against women is a serious issue and such a comprehensive misdiagnosis of the problem means that the problem will remain. It is much easier to bring down a public figure like McGuire for an unpopular comment than to do the hard work of actually figuring out how we can fix this problem. But we owe it to the victims of domestic violence to do just that. We must do better.

As I stated in my initial post, this is a popular viewpoint. Do you mind please helping me tease out the dynamic at play here? For starters, what percentage of incidents of domestic violence do you think occurred because the perpetrator, who otherwise would never commit an act of domestic violence, heard a joke similar to McGuire's? Then, could you please put a percentage figure next to the following factors, of how important you think they are in contributing to an act of domestic violence: - the reprehensible behaviour of the individual - the behaviour of close male role models during the childhood of the perpetrator - mental illness - drug or alcohol abuse - jokes like McGuire's Then, if you've ever said, "I could just kill x for not cleaning her room/ for forgetting to pay me back/ for taking the last tim tam" OR if you've ever heard someone else say that but not challenged them, are you willing to admit that you have contributed to domestic violence in Australia?

Really? Do you know anyone who genuinely thinks women deserve less respect than men?

As I said in a previous post, do you really think there is an "accepting culture" of domestic violence in Australia? Do you know anyone who thinks it's okay to attack a woman?

Firstly, rates of domestic violence are declining. Secondly, to blame "culture" is to completely let the individual off the hook for their reprehensible behaviour. Thirdly, I simply cannot agree that there is an "accepting culture" of domestic violence in Australia. Does anyone seriously know anyone that thinks it's okay to physically attack a woman?

I completely disagree. The idea that there is some kind of spectrum with violence against women at one end and off-colour jokes at the other is absolute rubbish. They are two very different things and to argue that there is a relationship between them is to misdiagnose the problem and to unjustly accuse virtually all men of contributing to domestic violence. I understand this is the view of many anti-domestic violence activists and is an idea put forward by the government's own advertising on the issue, but it just does not stand up to any scrutiny. Clearly, the act of actually committing violence against a woman requires a series of immensely warped internal behavioural mechanisms most often promulgated by the behaviour of close male role models in the perpetrator's life. Violence against women is not 'permitted' by off-colour jokes like McGuire's. How else do we explain the fact that all men have heard jokes like McGuire's yet only a small percentage of men engage in domestic violence? Clearly there are other factors at play apart from jokes/banter etc. The idea that it does misdiagnoses the problem and makes virtually every woman a victim of domestic violence and virtually every man a perpetrator. Not only is this completely unjust, but more importantly, means we are no closer to actually stopping violence against women. Realistically, the fact that Caro (who I greatly respect by the way) is a combative investigative journalist by choice means that she is more than fair game for crude jokes like McGuire's and Frawley's.

For a moment there in the third it looked like we were going to storm back into it. Very disappointing last quarter.

Great win from the boys! It's a pity that Garlett doesn't seem to have got much form back though. On Hulett - does he do any ruck work?

I like JKH cos he has a crack but he's not good enough. I'd love to be proven wrong, but I'd be looking at re-launching his acting career if I were him.

Harsh call on harmes! (Yes, spc's avatar is doggie brown)

Haha seems like the boys are making up for last week!

Don't know what they're complaining about, they poached Mark Neeld off us... ?

Maybe the royal blue jumper is like how some people wear gear with communist symbology on it. Retro cool unless you had to live through it!

I have a sneaking suspicion he'll be a finals specialist. Will have a knack of nailing set shots at crucial times.

The feeling's mutual.

The last few pages of this thread are about a radio interview on which I have also commented. If that is 'nothing', a) why are you reading it and b) why are you commenting on it?

PJ's fantastic but nobody's perfect. Seems a bit out of character to me.

Does anyone else think that perhaps pj shouldn't have been so forthright about our interest and that hibberd might resent things being made uncomfortable for him?

Couldn't be more ecstatic that Essendon are whinging about us picking at their carcass. Despise that club. I want to bully them for the next decade.

What year did that loss to North happen?? They were certainly great times. I reckon you need to set your side up for 4 or 5 'repeat entries' into the top 4 and hope for at least one you get a good run with injuries, form and luck (not playing one of the best sides of all time in the big dance would also help!).

Not a bad idea but it's a no from me. How would people feel if we wore the royal blue jumper as our away jumper? Assuming it fits the AFL's rules - which it probably doesn't.

Wait till our boy jack starts kicking crucial set shots in finals...

But in 87 and 88 they only finished 5th at the end of the home and away season. And in 90 they only finished 4th. In a 14 team comp, I reckon that shows they were outside the top echelon. Sure, we had some magnificent septembers and we definitely had a side we could be proud of, but in the cold hard light of day, those sides weren't unlucky - they weren't good enough.

This really is a pretty enormous overreaction. As far I can tell, all anyone did was question the economic sense of the suggestion that the female players should earn the same as the male players from day 1. Today truly is a great day. Girls can now grow up dreaming of playing for their favourite footy team, just like boys. I'm proud of my club for playing a key role in driving it.

I'm not 100% sure what you mean, but if you look at every premiership team going to back to say, 1897, you'll see that the bottom 6-8 players could be described as 'good ordinary footballers'.