Undeeterred

Ffs.. Hes getting top whack and's hardly on the park . Wheres the friggin value in that.

Its just a black and white evaluation . Take all the hype and emotion away and we arent getting much in return. Thats the cold hard reality.

This is a complete irrelevancy.

It is salary cap money, which we have to pay someone. Injuries happen.

Who the frig else would you suggest we pay his wage too??

WYL, I used to appreciate your posts, your passion, even your insight, but you've turned into a directionless ranter.

Think I've hit a watershed moment in my life and actually agreed with a stuie post. Scary.

Fitzpatrick was terrible last week, but great this week.

Toumpas was great last week but terrible this week.

Demonland's Official Conclusion: Fitzpatrick is great but Toumpas sucks.

Well, it is a small picture, short term memory kind of place.

Cool, you guys can defend Trengove and in a way I admire your support for him. I'm just very worried that he's going to be just a handy second tier player when what we should have got was an A grader.

I think he is the same boat as the rest of our top end midfielders.

He needs a stable and environment and some help. Amazing what will happen once those two things are in place.

are you capable of a discussion, can you add to the enlightenment or are your observations limited to red noses and big shoes ?

Sure.

Trengove is 21 years of age and is playing in the biggest f-up of a midfield in living memory.

Nevertheless, he is consistently in the top half dozen ballgetters.

He has played for 5? coaches in 70 games, each of them probably telling him something completely different. He followed the last one's stupid defensive game plan so well that his freewheeling style has been beaten out of him.

That same coach turned up one day and tells him that, of the 30 odd blokes older than him on the list, not a single one of them is capable of leading a club better than him.

Then, he practically busted his foot in the last preseason.

I think he is carrying a huge burden, doing his best to show his teammates direction, and is playing ok. He'll be fine.

no. You lift your expectations and standards.

I want to see this club win the 13th Flag

The twin captaincy rubbish sums up the shoddy leadership this club is famous for

Wakey Wakey.

In all seriousness do yo consider his game as OK, good , very good ??

Would you follow him over the top ??

Does he inspire ?

Clowns.

When has Trengove played like a captain should?

What a Joke. Robbie Flower was a Captain as was David Neitz.

Had 20 and 12 tackles tonight mate. As usual, your radar is sadly off.

I'm not sure a priority pick is going to help, other than in the long term. We need big bodied mids to give our poor kids a bit of time to develop in the VFL. Look at teams like Collingwood, they have 21 year olds who have only just broken into the team. Our 21 year olds have been flogged 35 out of 38 games by the time they are that old.

Toumpas, Kent et al shouldn't be in the seniors, they should be in the magoos. But then we'd have to take Jordie and Nicho, and no thanks to that.

What has happenned to Steph Martin?

They gave him a few games and realised he was [censored], just like we always knew.

Well there goes a great saying dc.

But I will stay with the idea.

We have only a few AFL standard players, the others will never be more than VFL standard no matter how fit you get them.

Go with 'you can't polish a turd' from now on.

There hasn't been a complete lack of progress.

He recovered from the original dislocation sufficiently to be able to train and play.

He has since had the screw removed and has inflammation and irritation that hasn't settled sufficiently.

While it is related to the surgery, as far as I can tell this is now a completely different "injury" than the original one and ha only been going on for 12 weeks, not 12 months.

The fact is, whether due to a later complication or not, his foot isn't right, there is no indication it is getting better and the club appears to have no idea when it might be.

what about that gives you grave doubts? I can only assume it is the uncertainty. What I am suggesting is they give what little info they have; explain the actual problem and the prognosis, even if the prognosis is just "we need to wait til it settles down before he does anything".

I don't think it is the uncertainty - I think it is the complete lack of progress in over 12 months from his original injury. He's completely unsighted.

Oh, and since we lured him here a year ago, and the message it would send to prospective free agents or recruits who might actually now be quite keen to come to Melbourne and play under Paul Roos is simply too horrifying to contemplate.

Anyway, since when did Chris Dawes become some untouchable Demon hero??

Since the other key forward everybody is spoodging about has played 5 games, whereas Dawes has played as a premiership CHF.

Since the other other key forward hasn't played in almost two years because of an injury which is pretty certain to ensure he will never play seriously again.

Since the other other other key forward is 17, and a fair way off yet from being Nick Riewoldt-eqsue.

Since the other other other other key forward has played 3 semi-decent games in the forward line, after playing a season loose across half back.

Bad luck mate, that was a really thought out, considered post.

Sometimes, though, I really think some posters on here must just be sitting around all day with their [censored] in their hand. Seriously.

Good boy Col.

Committing in public is actually the type of leadership we've been screaming out for and people have been screaming out for him to show.

This is far more important than the simple fact he wants to play at Melbourne - it is about the symbolism.

Well that escalated quickly!

One final thought - at least we know now that Geelong wont smash us by 186 next week.

Further convinced he simply is not a pure midfielder but a high half forward.

Behind a good midfield playing that role with short bursts through the middle will only see his best. Unfortunately that will more than likely be at another club.

Really hope we can keep him though, if a question of $$$ we have the cap space.

We do. We are pretty much double paying half our list to get up to the minimum TPP.

He'd also be leading our inside 50 blaze away turnovers quite convincingly. Unfortunately his old mate Moloney isn't around to challenge him for the title.

Good point.

Better get rid of him, quick smart.

Stupid thread, because he can't be traded.

Stupid idea anyway, because he is one of our senior players (like it or not), third for tackles, first by a country mile for inside 50s and, oh, had another 20-odd touches today, which is happening a lot.

What would we possibly gain from letting him walk? Spot 40 on the list for pick 80 or something?

FMD.

Two things in this:

1. The umpires they put on Melbourne are complete muppets. Every week. The number of times, eg, Melbourne cop about 5 decisions which result directly in goals is staggering, especially when the soft 'even up' decisions are usually in our back 50. This is just the way it is, until we get better.

2. I reckon lots of us (me included) are working on old interpretations of the rules. There really isn't an 'incorrect disposal' rule any more - if you drop it but play goes on, for example, they will let it go to keep the game moving. This is INFURIATING because it is against the rules, but they are old interpretations. You just have to live with the fact that, every single week, a bloke will take on 4, get tackled, get swung around and handball off to a running teammate. It's just not holding the ball anymore...

If anyone thinks the previous coach "had" the players they need a lobotomy.

The raw ingredients of a good side are definitely on the list. Needs some midfield influx, but that's the easiest part.

Spot on Ben - and Roos knows it...

That says it all really, what a fart butt.

I love your insults by the way.

Are you 12 by any chance?

It is interesting that neeld was fired before the saints and doggies games, I think the thinking about that was if he was still there and we beat both teams, then it would have been hard to sack him after that.

Or they wanted Craig to have a crack at getting an early win and validate the decision to boot Neeld?