Undeeterred

Well, only because everybody has their opinion, and by their nature, opinions differ. All I've said is that I wish Liam well, because I am sure what he is going through sucks. However, I'm not really interested in justifications. I haven't made any comments about whether so-and-so should make X statements or not, or on Liam wanting to play for us or not, or for anyone. That's his call entirely, and I respect it. I just found that post really patronising.

Because the messenger is writing self-indulgent cr@p.

Why are we telling people that he would be delisted otherwise? Surely that reduces his trade value...

Look, I really do wish Liam all the best, but my honest reaction to this post was 'Oh, spare me'.

Been hiding under a rock for 2 years?

Epic. Fail.

Gold.

Looks good - so Clarky might get a run at Casey? Poor old Age...

OK, last time I'll bother to try to get through. Player contracts mostly mandate a particular number of media and other appearances players and coaches must do. And, while I'm prepared to be corrected on this, I am pretty sure the broadcast deal also mandates a particular number of appearances per club in various media, and the club allocates players and coaches to this accordingly. Do you think the coaches do pre-match radio because they enjoy it? They don't, and they mostly talk meaningless rubbish. Or because they think supporters care what they say half an hour before a match? I know I don't care, I'd rather Neeld was in the rooms reminding our players what manning up means. Do you think James Hird wants to be interviewed at quarter time by some roving idiot, while he is wandering back up to the box? Do you think players do media interviews before they've even wiped the mud off their faces because they are media whores? Of course they don't. They do it because they are contractually obliged to do it.

They are obliged to do them. Just like Tony Abbott. How does it look when Tony Abbott walks out of Parliament and refuses to say anything? Bad. They don't have the 'silence' option, in reality.

Absolutely agree - but unfortunately that's the broadcasting deal that applies to each club. What's the point in an endless parade of kids talking the same garbage? Although Patrick Dangerfield's interview on SEN after the game was exceptional. He is articulate, intelligent and frank, which is more than can be said for most.

Just FYI, players are required to do media. Do you think it would be better to do a 'no comment' interview??? Get a grip.

That's a pretty good start, in my book. Think we all just have to wait to see whether he ends up as a tall Luke Hodge or Brendon Goddard, both of which would be a win for MFC.

Facts never stopped Rangie before, why start now?

I don't think you'll find, of the vast weight of posters who disagree with you, not one has suggested he isn't slow.

Go back and read your posts on this thread. You start off by getting stuck in to Trengove on a very general basis, probably because Range Rover was. Then, when the discussion changes tack towards Trengove being slow, you say that its not about him having a lack of support, it is about him having a lack of pace. Utterly inconsistent. And I wasn't being rude, I was merely pointing this out.

Sorry to include you in the Peanut Gallery with RR and WYL. I can see what you're saying. I just don't think that he has been that bad. He's right up there in most of our key midfielder stats, and in my view has dealt with the captaincy really well. It is obvious if you watch him closely that he is working his guts out and doing lots of things that people don't notice. I do agree that he has obviously been labouring, which means he is (1) not running as quickly or (2) not kicking with as much penetration as he usually would. But you have to view these things as a whole, and I don't think those particular (temporay) limitations overshadow the fact that he has actually had a pretty good season. It is easy to pinpoint 1 kick that doesn't make the distance, or 1 chase where he can't go, while ignoring the 20 other times he touches the ball in a game.

Are you actually a goldfish who has somehow learned how to type, but, being a goldfish, forgets what he has said 10 minutes ago?

You mean, other than the fact that he can't move, all of a sudden? If he was genuinely slow, he would have played like Brock McLean as an 18 year old.

I think you'll see, if you review the objective evidence available, that he has been one of our most consistent players all year. But of course, sweeping generalisations and mindless repititions of a base statement are easy. Properly analysing the evidence and realising it doesn't support your case is what is unpalatable. .

While I have been a long-time advocate of us chasing him, I've realised we'd need to offer him $2mil to come to Melbourne. Then again, so might Carlton and GWS, the way they are going!

I did put the 'load' qualifier on that, which is the other reason that most sensible people have put forward for his physical condition. How else do you explain loss of speed and kicking length? Especially so in a guy who 2-3 years ago was noted for both. I'd argue that he has been relatively effective regardless, which is borne out by the evidence I posted. You didn't bother to try to refute any of it. It is easy to just run a thread potting a player with nothing to support you other than 'Gee, he is slow', but to me it looks like you just pushing your usual agendas.

Frawley isn't the problem and Biffen is right - the way that it comes in, straight up the guts and quick smart, doesn't give him a lot of chance. I honestly think the best thing for the whole club at the moment will be to drop the footies, go and get sh!tfaced together, have 3 weeks off, and forget all about 2012.

I'd suspect the answer is because they don't want him to end up as a 'big bodied player', but that's just a guess, given they have played him as a floating, rebounding half back all year. Not much point being built like Quentin Lynch if you are playing that role.

I'm a firm believer that he is injured, as many people have noted on numerous threads previously. At worst, he is under a huge training load which will be beneficial in the long term. You don't just 'lose' pace (except when you get old, like me) and you don't just not be able to kick 35m all of a sudden. While I'm at it, 7th in at MFC marks, 9th in goals, 4th in contested possessions and 6th in inside 50s. The only stat that surprised me was that he is 14th in 1%ers (whatever they are). Yes, he's not immediately eye catching at the moment, but to say he is ineffective, or worse, that we should get rid of him, is flat out silly.